In hindsight, the Wing Commander movie was a masterpiece.

boringnickname

Rear Admiral
Ah, so that would be after the new movie that just established that Kirk's father is a space hero we've never heard of whose /very existence/ is what means that the universe has destined him to be the Federation's greatest captain :)? Isn't that *exactly the same retcon* as Blair's mother having been a Pilgrim? If anything, it's on a much, much bigger scale? The movie wants us to suddenly believe that all of Kirk's accomplishments go back to who his father is who we'd never heard of were.

Well, the difference is that Kirk is still just a human after all, and his father being a bigwig doesn't change the entire fictional universe. It's also known that Kirk is big war hero with lots of medals and stuff. Him being from a family of military big names isn't that surprising. It's a lot less surprising for sure than Blair being part space god.

To get back to my "Kirk being part alien" analogy: The species Kirk's grandfather belonged to (let's call them "seekers", that's their Federation nickname because they seeked for some artefact in Fed space and killed lots in the process ) also had a devastating war with the Federation that was crucial to its whole history, we learn for example that the first contact with the Cardassians was due to seeker influence and that seekers looked very much like humans and so infiltrated humanity and interbred with them. Also the warp drive as it is used in the TNG era is based mostly on the technology of the seekers. Furthermore, suddenly other important and established characters (like Paladin in the movie...) would have seeker heritage. Scotty's mother for example would have been a seeker.

Throughout the show there would be lots of episodes dealing with racism against seekers, Kirk's seeker heritage and situations where he would solve problems using his seeker powers.

That's how the movie came across.

I am aware that other franchises also do retcon, but something about how the Pilgrims were handled in the movie just didn't work and ticked too many people (who were familiar with WC) off, more so than most retcons in other franchises.



Yeah, I think you just took that wrong way. When Paladin says the Pilgrims lost touch with their humanity what he means is that [...]

You must admit that my impression is a lot closer to the info the movie gave us than your long winded explanation that comes from the books.

If the movie wanted to tell us that the Pilgrims alone started the war and there are still billions of them left, it did an extremely bad job in doing so.
 

WCX

Rear Admiral
Then why'd the war start?
[Sighs]
You spend so much time out here alone...
you end up losing your humanity.
When Pilgrims began to lose touch with their heritage...
they saw themselves as superior to men.
And in their arrogance...
they chose to abandon all things human...

Like I said, the Pilgrim Alliance reminds me much of the Principality of Zeon. That and Mormans...IN SPACE!



I was flying for murderers the whole time and no one told me.

I think that thought is what started Daimon Karnes down his lonely path. Hell, for all we know, he might have bear witness to the Peron massacre.

Truth is, I kind of like the moral ambiguity this creates. It paints a more complex, more realistic portrait of the Confederation.
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
You must admit that my impression is a lot closer to the info the movie gave us than your long winded explanation that comes from the books.

If the movie wanted to tell us that the Pilgrims alone started the war and there are still billions of them left, it did an extremely bad job in doing so.

The film really doesn't explain much about the Pilrim war, much less who the agressors were. Though obviously the Pilgrims must have done something not good to deserve so much hate. That doesn't just come from propaganda. Paladin's lines about a dying race are hardly conclusive in this regard. But his line about their arrogance tells us more I think. Still, this is kind of interesting in this context: Check out the differences in the script between draft three and the shooting script:

Third Draft said:
==112 INT. DEVERAUX'S QUARTERS 112==


ANGEL, in her flight suit, is alone, spending a quiet
moment before the upcoming battle.

The door buzzer sounds. She hits the pause button. The
hologram freezes in place. Deveraux groans and gets off
the bunk, assuming it's Forbes.

Then her door slides open. Blair stands there in his
flight suit, looking grim. For once, she is caught
completely off guard.

BLAIR
Commander, I need to talk to you.
He pushes past her, not waiting to be invited in.

DEVERAUX
You just don't barge into my

BLAIR
Here.

He tosses his Pilgrim's cross at her. She catches it.

BLAIR (CONT'D)
That answer your question? I'm half
Pilgrim. In Gerald's mind, I started
selling out the Tiger Claw the moment I
stepped on board. And judging from the
look on your face, you think he's
right.

DEVERAUX
Sit down, Lieutenant.

He angrily parks himself on her bunk. She turns the cross
over in her hands.

DEVERAUX (CONT'D)
Do you know why they call me Angel?

BLAIR gives a quick, curt shake of his head.

DEVERAUX (cont'd)
I grew up in an orphanage. Every
night I'd wake up crying, asking for
my parents. The sisters told me they
were angles. So I just kept calling
out for them, hoping that they were
there, watching over me. But they
weren't. They were just dead. They
were killed by Pilgrims.

BLAIR
You were at the Peron massacre.

DEVERAUX
I was in the house. I heard the
screams. I saw the blood. And I felt
the pure, cold hate of those Pilgrims
towards my family because they were
judged different. I swore to myself
then that I would never hate or judge
without reason. So I don't hate you
for what you are, Blair. But I will
judge you for who you are. Who the
hell are you?


BLAIR
...I'm a Confederation officer on a
capital ship in a war zone, Ma'am.
And I'm a pawn. But pawns can take
kings.

DEVERAUX
I believe you're starting to
understand the rules of the game,
Lieutenant. See you on deck.

BLAIR nods, gets up, starts to exit.

DEVERAUX (cont'd)
And Blair. Gerald's a clown.



Shooting Script said:
112 INT. TIGER CLAW - DEVERAUX'S QUARTERS

ANGEL, in her flight suit, is alone, spending a quiet moment
before the upcoming battle. She's looking at an OLD HOLO-VID -
dated by the worn frame and static on the video. A SMALL GIRL
is playing with her PARENTS.

The door buzzer sounds. She hits the pause button. The
hologram freezes in place. Deveraux groans and gets off
the bunk, assuming it's Forbes.

Then her door slides open. Blair stands there in his flight
suit, looking grim. For once, she is caught completely off guard.

BLAIR
I need to talk to you.

He pushes past her, not waiting to be invited in.

DEVERAUX
You just don't barge into my--

BLAIR
Here.

He tosses his Pilgrim's cross at her. She catches it.

BLAIR (CONT'D)
I wear it for luck. It was my mother's.

DEVERAUX
Is your luck at odds with our mission?

BLAIR
You think he's right? Gerald -- in his mind I started selling
out the Tiger Claw the moment I stepped on board.

DEVERAUX
I don't see how can you be a Pilgrim and fight on our side.

BLAIR
I'm not a Pilgrim -- I don't even know what a Pilgrim is.

Deveraux looks at him.

BLAIR (Cont'd)
My mother was. She was an off-worlder who grew up hating
Earth, humanity. My father fought for the Confederation.
Somehow, despite all the hate they found each other. They died
before I was five. He was killed trying to save her in the Peron massacre.
The cross is all I have. I don't know where I belong, Commander -- except here fighting and flying.

Deveraux is maybe starting to understand him. She turns
the cross over in her hands.

DEVERAUX
Sit down, Lieutenant.

Blair sits.

DEVERAUX
Why do you think they call me Angel?

BLAIR gives a shake of his head.

DEVERAUX (CONT'D)
It's a real weeper -- headlines: My parents died in the
same war. I grew up in an orphanage.

BLAIR meets her gaze. A connection.

DEVERAUX (Cont'd)
At night, I'd cry for them. The sisters told me they were angels.
I kept crying for them to come and take me to heaven. They
weren't angels they were dead -- gone. It was like they never existed.

BLAIR
Like Bossman?

Deveraux's look is Blair's answer.

DEVERAUX
Emotion gets in the way of our mission.

BLAIR
Commander -- emotion is what separates us from the
Pilgrims and the Kilrathi.

Deveraux has spent a lifetime denying the pain. Blair has
struck a nerve.

DEVERAUX
(Angry/denying tears)
Lt. Cmdr Chen was -- Bossman and I got close. Too close.
And then he got himself killed.

Neither says anything for a minute. Blair starts to reach out
to touch her, but Deveraux recovers and puts on a game face.

DEVERAUX (Cont'd)
We are square. You saved my ass today. Id' better suit up.

DEVERAUX hands Blair back the cross. BLAIR nods,
gets up, starts to exist.

DEVERAUX (Cont'd)
And Blair. Gerald’s a clown.

Notice that the intention of the scene actually changes quite abit. In the preceding scene where Blair and Angel are debriefed about their encounter with the Concom, Angel finds out he's a Pilgrim. Remember that she wasn't in the room to know why him and Hunter were fighting. So Angel here was originally supposed to be conflicted because she also hates Pilgrims for killing her family. Except now, in the finished movie, Instead of Angel's parent dying in the 'Peron Massacre' it's Blair's parents. Angel seems to not like that Blair is a Pilgrim in that debrief scene in the final cut, but we never get any context for her seeming shift in attitude towards Blair and for her questioning his motives once she knows he's a Pilgrim.

What is more, the conversation chages seem to shift the victims of The 'Peron Massacre' to Pilgrims and essentially give you about the only statement in the film that puts either side of the conflict in any kind of pro or negative light. Add to this the idea that we're supposed to feel bad that the absense of pilgrims means space exploration has been stagnant for years, and I can see where you might get the impression from.

EDIT: While I'm at it (I've been going through the third draft at the moment for the WCpedia project) here's the "It's not faith, It's genetics" scene from the third draft:

PALADIN
We'll have to send a fighter through.

GERALD
Impossible. There are over a thousand singularities in that Quasar. To jump it would be suicide without NAVCOM coordinates.

Looking at Blair.

PALADIN
We don't need a NAVCOM, Mr. Gerald. We have a Pilgrim with the gift. Mr. Blair, you will navigate the Quasar. Deveraux will accompany you.

BLAIR looks at Paladin.

BLAIR
Paladin, it's one in a million who can jump a Quasar.

PALADIN
Looks like you just won the lottery.

GERALD
You can't know he has the capacity.

PALADIN
I know!

BLAIR fingers for his cross. Except it's not there. HE shakes his head.

BLAIR
...He's right. I don't have the faith.

PALADIN
It's not about faith, Blair. It's about genetics. A single marker attached to a single gene. It's the capacity to feel magnetic fields. And you do have it. But if you believe you need faith...

PALADIN reaches into his tunic, pulls a cross from under his vest -a Pilgrim Cross. GERALD reacts.

PALADIN (CONT'D)
Take mine.
 

Bob McDob

Better Health Through Less Flavor
I always felt that last scene strips the point that Paladin makes right before. "It's not about faith! ... but if you think it is, here's something for good luck."

Which wouldn't be so bad, if the jump scene didn't show Blair clutching to his Cross like it was a lifeline.
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
I always felt that last scene strips the point that Paladin makes right before. "It's not about faith! ... but if you think it is, here's something for good luck."

Which wouldn't be so bad, if the jump scene didn't show Blair clutching to his Cross like it was a lifeline.

This isn't abnormal in everyday life though. Having the confidence in himself is what's essential here for Blair, so in a way he does need 'faith.' But it's faith in himself. If Blair second guessed himself during the jump then the outcome could have been different. Also part of the subtext (obviously missing in the theatrical cut) is that Blair has been strugling with his own identity. Everyone hates him for being a pilgrim and thus he doesn't feel he fits on either side of the coin. He isn't really a Pilgrim because he doesn't really know anything about them but he's hated just the same. In killing the Pilgrim traitor with his own cross he essentially proves what side hes on and turns his back on the misguided Pilgrim ideals. So no, Blair doen't really have faith in his ability to make the jump. Paladin's comment isn't whether the pilgrim ability is scientific or not. It's about Blair himself.
 

boringnickname

Rear Admiral
Whether it's genetics or faith isn't that important for the movie though.

Being able to navigate through space by faith alone is actually cooler and is less of a cliche than the "superhuman through super genes" stuff.

Sci fi is full of genetic supermen, but being actually able to have "powers" because of faith or mental training alone is more interesting. Actually, at the moment I can only think of the various schools in Dune, in which the training gives superman powers that comes close to this concept. (I am sure there are more though) Star Wars doesn't count anymore, because of the addition of "Midi-Chlorians" and its AIDS-Test like "force testing kit".

And it's not the actual power of the Pilgrims or how those powers came to be what's wrong with them, but how the Pilgrims were included into the movie. But I wrote tons about it here already.

I still have the opinion that the Wing Commander movie shouldn't have been an origin-of-the-universe story. That's where the need to spice up things with Pilgrims, the "you have never existed" game, young-man-needs-to-prove-himself.. stuff came from, and which is the most controversial. Together with the lots of retcons.

The ideal time for the movie would have been just before Wing Commander 3, using the novels End Run and Fleet Action as main source but concentrate the focus on Blair. (We all know he fought at the Battle of Earth) This way way most actors from WC3 and 4 would appear and you have a full rugged war story with intrigues, action, doomsdays and all the stuff you want in a movie. So what if the main people wouldn't be young athletes, they are damn war veterans in the worst war mainkind has ever seen, damn.

And if youth is that important, then focus it on some young fighter pilot who has Colonel Blair as his superior officer, fighting at the Battle of Earth. Man, what a movie this would be. This way, all Wing Commander "branches" would the connected: The games, the movie and Foerstchen's books, without much inconsistencies and "patch-ups" (like the attempt to erase the Pilgrims in the recent books).
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Well, the difference is that Kirk is still just a human after all, and his father being a bigwig doesn't change the entire fictional universe. It's also known that Kirk is big war hero with lots of medals and stuff. Him being from a family of military big names isn't that surprising. It's a lot less surprising for sure than Blair being part space god.

I disagree--I think that just like Wing Commander, the retcon about Kirk's family significantly changes something fundamental about the Star Trek world (and unlike Wing Commander, I'm not necessarily okay with it). Until Star Trek XI we were lead to believe that Kirk was a great man because he was this pinnacle of Roddenberry's humanism--a shining example of the best man can accomplish. But then the new movie says no, it's because The Force. He's great because he was always destined to be great and even if he lives his life differently he's still going to be that guy. Whether the new backstory about his father is signifier or signified is a matter for debate, I suppose, but either way (like the Pilgrim story) it feels positively unearned. Trek XI treats it like a great reveal that Kirk's father had been alive in the other timeline and was an influence to him... which is all news to 40 preceding years of stories.

And my feeling is that in Wing Commander it *doesn't matter* like it does in Star Trek. Wing Commander is a new movie for a new audience that doesn't know Blair from Adam... and the addition to his backstory is so slight and insignificant as to not matter to anyone, whereas in Star Trek it changes everything you know about the world.

To get back to my "Kirk being part alien" analogy: The species Kirk's grandfather belonged to (let's call them "seekers", that's their Federation nickname because they seeked for some artefact in Fed space and killed lots in the process ) also had a devastating war with the Federation that was crucial to its whole history, we learn for example that the first contact with the Cardassians was due to seeker influence and that seekers looked very much like humans and so infiltrated humanity and interbred with them. Also the warp drive as it is used in the TNG era is based mostly on the technology of the seekers. Furthermore, suddenly other important and established characters (like Paladin in the movie...) would have seeker heritage. Scotty's mother for example would have been a seeker.

You sure hate Pilgrims!

... just like Commander Gerald.

Seriously, though, you're taking your analogy too far--trying to make us think of Pilgrims as some kind of alien monster instead of ordinary humans with a crazy religion. Here's Blair's mom:

blairents.png


Not some kind of alien! (... although her goofy collar does look positively... uh... Pilgrim.)

Wasn't there a Deep Space Nine--a REALLY GOOD Deep Space Nine--where we retcon that Doctor Bashir had been an amazing doctor the whole time not because he was some superior individual but because his parents had him genetically enhanced... which was banned because of a devastating war with the Federation that was crucial to its whole... and so on.

You must admit that my impression is a lot closer to the info the movie gave us than your long winded explanation that comes from the books.

If the movie wanted to tell us that the Pilgrims alone started the war and there are still billions of them left, it did an extremely bad job in doing so.

I disagree, if for no other reason than that in thirteen years of talking about this no one else has ever mentioned getting this impression from the movie. :)

I think that thought is what started Daimon Karnes down his lonely path. Hell, for all we know, he might have bear witness to the Peron massacre.

Interesting side-note--Peron is a planet in the Luyten system... so you were actually defending it at one point in Secret Ops!

For those interested in what the Peron Massacre was: as the war swung in favor of the Confederation they began island hopping through the Pilgrim Alliance with the aim of reaching McDaniel's World... and Peron was the planet where the Pilgrims decided to make their last stand. It came down to a bloody seven month long siege of the planet with neither side willing to give up... which finally ended when a second Confederation fleet was readied. The planet was devastated in the process and the Pilgrims, now realizing the Confederation's resources and resolve, opted to surrender rather than allow the same thing to happen to their core worlds.

The geography of the Pilgrim Alliance actually comes from the WCU map, which has a cluster of 'religious sounding' systems in the lower right hand corner of the Sol Sector.

Paladin, it's one in a million who can jump a Quasar.

Note that 'one in a million' is still a heck of a lot of a people in a universe with trillions of humans. :)

So no, Blair doen't really have faith in his ability to make the jump. Paladin's comment isn't whether the pilgrim ability is scientific or not. It's about Blair himself.

There's also a "you aren't alone" aspect to it. Blair isn't the only one who struggled with his heritage and decided to stay with the Confederation--Paladin has been there, and understands... and still carries his cross himself.



One last musing--I'm thinking whoever came up with the Pilgrim name was probably just not an American. To someone outside the US it's probably a perfectly cromulent name, meaning religious seekers/travellers... it's only here that we assosciate it specifically with New Englanders and turkeys.

Whether it's genetics or faith isn't that important for the movie though.

Being able to navigate through space by faith alone is actually cooler and is less of a cliche than the "superhuman through super genes" stuff.

Sci fi is full of genetic supermen, but being actually able to have "powers" because of faith or mental training alone is more interesting. Actually I can only think of the various schools in Dune, in which the training gives superman powers that comes close to this concept. Star Wars doesn't count anymore, because of the addition of "Midi-Chlorians" and its AIDS-Test like "force testing kit".

Training and magic worm juice. :) (Okay, okay, not the Suk doctors... but still.)

You're exaggerating the Pilgrim ability again, though--it's not some superhuman thing... it's an ordinary genetic option that ordinary people could have, but that Pilgrims *do* have.

And it's not the actual power of the Pilgrims or how those powers came to be what's wrong with them, but how they were included into the movie, out of nowhere. Major characters are suddenly Pilgrims, the technology of jumping being based on their technology/ability, huge subplot about a all-encompassing war and discrimination introduced as if it's common knowledge etc.

It's funny, I threw on Expendable last night before bed... and there's actually a bit where Blair does his Pilgrim navigation thing. They come out of the jump point, spot the Kilrathi... and Payback has to cover Blair while he calculates the jump, complete with the same punching-a-keypad action from the movie. I don't know if it was intentional (the script probably existed at the time) or not, but it was kind of neat either way.

The ideal time for the movie would have been just before Wing Commander 3, using the novels End Run and Fleet Action as main source but concentrate the focus on Blair. (We all know he fought at the Battle of Earth) This way way most actors from WC3 and 4 would appear and you have a full rugged war story with intrigues, action, doomsdays and all the stuff you want in a movie. So what if the main people wouldn't be young athletes, they are damn war veterans in the worst war mainkind has ever seen, damn.

We know he fought at the Battle of Earth... because he was retconned there by a later story;)

There was never any chance that you would see the Wing Commander III and IV casts (with the exception of Malcolm McDowell and maybe John Rhys-Davies) in a Wing Commander movie. They're just two entirely different strata of productions.
 
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boringnickname

Rear Admiral
Wasn't there a Deep Space Nine--a REALLY GOOD Deep Space Nine--where we retcon that Doctor Bashir had been an amazing doctor the whole time not because he was some superior individual but because his parents had him genetically enhanced... which was banned because of a devastating war with the Federation that was crucial to its whole... and so on.

Yeah, and that episode and storyline sucked. It was way worse than the Pilgrim stuff, because Bashir's "doctor abilities" weren't in any way special, at least Blair is known throughout the games as a very good pilot. Bashir wasn't any different than all the other ST medics.

On the other hand, Bashir isn't an iconic character to the whole ST franchise.

There was never any chance that you would see the Wing Commander III and IV casts (with the exception of Malcolm McDowell and maybe John Rhys-Davies) in a Wing Commander movie. They're just two entirely different strata of productions.

Hm, I don't get what you're saying here. Are Mark Hamill and Tom F. Wilson now above or below Freddie Prinze and Matthew Lillard?
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
Hm, I don't get what you're saying here. Are Mark Hamill and Tom F. Wilson now above or below Freddie Prinze and Matthew Lillard?

Whether you think it makes sense or not you have to imagine trying to advertise a movie staring Mark Hamill and Tom Wilson to 15 million non-gamers... Yeah, not that sexy is it.

Is that the right aproach to the material? Maybe not, but film company executives and people investing money in said production just don't think that way. Name one movie that Mark Hamill or Tom Wilson headlined since either Star Wars or Back to the Future that was a huge financial success on their merrits alone.

Freddy Prinze Jr may not have been the right choice for the role but at the time he was an unknown relatively pleasant looking young up and coming actor. I know tons of women that loved him in all the sappy romantic comedies he was in, no matter how terrible the film was. He had a somewhat dedicated following from his work in the 'I know what you did last summer' movies. To a movie exec, this sounds like dollar signs from a crowd that might not normally be interested in a sci-fi war movie.

I never ever hated the movie despite not liking aspects of it. But you know what my main gripe was when it first came out? That it felt like it was aimed at early teens and that it didn't feel serious or 'grown up' enough. The 'balls' humor and whatnot... To me the WC games always felt edgy. As a teen they always felt more dramatic and serious in tone than the average nintendo/pc game of the time. WC4 was one of the first M rated games that I can remember despite it being pretty tame by todays standards. It's not that it needed to be overly serious like the absurd legnths they went to in the recent BSG tv show, but It did feel aimed at a different audience.

I think this is one area where the film also suffers from overediting. Having worked with the workprint and the DVD a bunch to see what is there, it's pretty clear that the humor is less of a huge factor in a movie that runs longer and has more time to breathe in each scene, especially when you extend the more dramatic last half of the film by a good 20 minutes.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
The weird part about the Pilgrims is that they had this unbeatable fleet that simply disappeared into unknown space. It’s just strange, it’s like if there were a separate human settlement under the sea or on the moon with advanced tech that could obliterate the rest of mankind and we simply would never really think about it or make a passing mention on the subject again, even tought we were under constant threat ourselves from some kind of evil alien.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
The weird part about the Pilgrims is that they had this unbeatable fleet that simply disappeared into unknown space. It’s just strange, it’s like if there were a separate human settlement under the sea or on the moon with advanced tech that could obliterate the rest of mankind and we simply would never really think about it or make a passing mention on the subject again, even tought we were under constant threat ourselves from some kind of evil alien.

I'm not sure what this is referencing.
 

Mace

Vice Admiral
look at how they handled Starbuck, you'll see a much better portrayal of a rogueish pilot than Maniac

You never seen the original show or read up upon the character. Personally i could never figure out why they had to turn the original series ladies man into a shemale.

Both versions however combined on thesame storyline in the respective series though, they even end up thesame.

Maniac was even in the movie a rogueish pilot, in prophecy he actually said that he had trouble with people under his wing not being able to pull the moves he makes in flight.
 

Mace

Vice Admiral
Now let us get back on my review of the movie.

- The hangar deck is spot-on, in every detail.
- Maniac is maniac.
- Angel is angel, without compromise.
- Blair uses skill, alianaetd or other to save the universe.
- Hunter was definetitly present.
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
So I was doing some digging around uograding trailer encodings for the WCpedia project and I noticed something... Well, I guess I had noticed it before but hadn't thought of it. I knew there was a VDU of a Dorkir, even though we don't really see them in the film, but apparently the VDU of the concom looks like...

A Fralthi?
 

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Finder of things, Doer of stuff
And another one, which claims to lift the reason, why the movie is bad... *sigh*

Really, how hard is it to at least mention why stuff you don't like exists in the movie. The argument that the director doesn't get Sci-fi because he made the radio transmissions sound crackly? Seriously? He doesn't even mention that - good or bad - it was intended to be a World War 2 movie, only in space for some reason. What's worse, he pretends to have done his research by name-dropping an old interview with Chris Roberts, which only makes that ommission more baffling.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
And another one, which claims to lift the reason, why the movie is bad... *sigh*

A word to the wise: Don't ever, ever, ever take websites like 1up or kotaku or the like seriously. Online reviews, save for those precious few who are actual professional journalists like Roger Ebert or people who've been there like Peter Bogdanovich, are largely written by people with no field experience or education in the form. These are the people who slandered Superman Returns when it came out and now treat it as some great film they always loved upon seeing these new pictures of Henry Cavill. They're the type that will stab you in the front only if they can't reach your back.
 

boringnickname

Rear Admiral
Anyone who played the Wing Commander series back in the day will tell you that much of the games' original draw can be found in their FMV sequences. Sure, they were cheap and the games' writing was about on par with Star Wars fan-fiction (with fewer Han-on-Chewie sex scenes), but that didn't stop the franchise from taking off

Now that's bullshit. The writing of WC3 and 4 was better than most sci fi on air right now.

We've already discussed the atracious Transformers movies here (and the new V).

And as much as I love criticizing the movie when needed, this is unfair:

You've also probably guessed by now that despite its nominally progressive message, the movie's sole black character with a name -- who also happens to be one of only two women -- dies halfway through to serve as pathos for the surviving white characters, because that's what racial sensitivity is all about.

What? Of all the reviews about the WC movie that i've read, this is the first time someone came up with this angle.
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
What? Of all the reviews about the WC movie that i've read, this is the first time someone came up with this angle.

I wouldn't say it's the first time I've heard it. But I don't think it's anything intentional either. The script doesn't specify a color for Forbes. All it says is "TWO PILOTS play chess on a beat up old board -- the anachronism of the game surprising. One of them is POLANSKI, a male pilot with a long scar running down his face. The other is FORBES -- female: brains, beauty, and a warrior's soul."
 

Wojo

Rear Admiral
'...only black person with a name...' huh? I was pretty sure at one point Hugh Quarshie was referred to as "Mr Obutu" by Tolwyn or someone else, correct me if I'm wrong.

All too often you see in sci-fi ships that have been in space for years, even decades, been shot to hell, through meteor storms, nebulas, and just about everything else that space can throw at them, and yet they still look factory new. (ST Voyager please stand up!)

I always thought the newer Star Trek really pushed this whole super-clean look too far... must be all the sweet shipwash discounts they get every time they fuel up at the 7Eleven. But then surely you would see the crew eating dodge meat pies a lot more often.
 
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