I'm new here, and I'm glad to see a WC community
- Thread starter Firebird
- Start date
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Originally posted by Pedro
As I said, there are no Pilgrims in the GAMES timeline, history whatever
I am not going to believe that no one, not historical documents, nothing mentioned the pilgrims, that makes no senseIt was added for the sake of the film
I think you're forgetting about Blair and Paladin.
Unforgiven
Spaceman
I think this proves my point...Originally posted by Unforgiven
I should add to that:
6. When explaining the WC universe, LOAF is always right. Even when he says continuity errors aren't really continuity errors at all
I found that out the hard way, by starting a thread on continuity.
Permission to come aboard granted!
Zor Prime
That guy.
that could be taken either way though. Although they were in the game, no mention was ever made in the games about pilgrims. It wasn't until the movie that we saw the first reference about them. So it just deends on who you talk to. Personnally, I see the movie and the games as seperate, just like CR wanted it.
Pedro
Admiral
Look we KNOW the history is not the same.
What about all those letters blair keeps recording for his mother and father, doesn't sound like they are dead to me, and in all those thoughts that he takes down does he ever once mention his Pilgrim ancestory even though it troubled him so deeply in the movie?
Why is it in WC2 that Confeds problems were all caused by Mandarins (? damn I need to replay that game) and not Pilgrims. Why did Tolwyn never mention his Pilgrim ancestory when discharging him, never mention how his father would have reacted seeing as he knew him.
Why was Blairs father in the Pilgrim wars yet in WCA blair mentioned that his father did not believe fighting in conflicts?
Why was Paladin stationed on board the Tigers claw and that the first time blair met him when they actually journeyed there together.
Come on do you really believe that Chris Roberts knew in WC1, 2, 3, or even 4 that Blair was a pilgrim? Ofcourse not
What about all those letters blair keeps recording for his mother and father, doesn't sound like they are dead to me, and in all those thoughts that he takes down does he ever once mention his Pilgrim ancestory even though it troubled him so deeply in the movie?
Why is it in WC2 that Confeds problems were all caused by Mandarins (? damn I need to replay that game) and not Pilgrims. Why did Tolwyn never mention his Pilgrim ancestory when discharging him, never mention how his father would have reacted seeing as he knew him.
Why was Blairs father in the Pilgrim wars yet in WCA blair mentioned that his father did not believe fighting in conflicts?
Why was Paladin stationed on board the Tigers claw and that the first time blair met him when they actually journeyed there together.
Come on do you really believe that Chris Roberts knew in WC1, 2, 3, or even 4 that Blair was a pilgrim? Ofcourse not
Supdon3
Kal-El
This is silly, it is SO not important. So hes a Pilgrim, so what. He doesnt follow any Pilgrim practices, he lost his cross so he doesnt carry it around anymore, and according to the Pilgrim Truth outline almost all the Pilgrims left Confed space so there arent any around to cause problems opening way for the Mandarins who wanted to let the Kilrathi conquer humanity so that they could change them from the inside, unlike the Pilgrims who used the Kilrathi as a means to an end, to wipe out humanity. Also note how that jsut being Pilgrim doesnt necesitate that the person hates humanity, while being a Mandarin is defined by wanting the Kilrathi to conquer humanity.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Tee-hee, you fell for it.
Foul, misuse of the term 'we'. Penalty, 10 yards.
There's quite clearly two sets of 'parents' in WCA alone... his actual father and mother and whoever he writes to. The person he writes to (his uncle, according to your vaunted game-sources -- yes, they kill his dad, too...) disagrees with the war and Blair's part in it. And the other person, the one he has a picture of and who appears as a ghost later in the series... WHO'S IN A NAVAL UNIFORM, AND LECTURES HIM ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT IT IS THAT HE'S IN THE MILITARY
That's his real father... the dead one, who was in the navy.
No offense, Pedro, but this is the worlds stupidest question. Why were all the problems in WC3 caused by Kilrathi and not GIANT BEES? Because the plot was about a war with the Kilrathi and not GIANT BEES. Now apply this theory to WC2... the plot was about Mandarins and not Pilgrims.
And, of course, ignoring the inherent stupidity of the question (Why wasn't WC1 about cake?!) THERE WERE NO PILGRIMS ANYMORE.
I've taken the liberty of re-writing the Wing Commander 2 intro in a way you and other crazy people will find much more helpful. Which is to say, now every character constantly tells eachother about Blair's religion for no apparent reason.
BEGIN PEDRO'S PERFECT WC2 SCRIPT!
[K'Tithrak Mang Kilrathi Sector HQ]
Emperor: I will speak with Prince Thrakhath alone. Guards, you are dismissed. Arise, grandson. How goes the war against the Terrans? AND BLAIR IS A PILGRIM
Thrakhath: The Terran carrier, Tiger's Claw, tried to attack us here at K'Tithrak Mang. But my stealth fighters destroyed it And soon we will demolish the rest of the human fleet--- ALSO, BLAIR IS A PILGRIM
Emperor: Speak of your plans, not of your toys. Tell me how you will defeat the humans, INCLUDING BLAIR, WHO IS A PILGRIM
Thrakhath: Yes, my Emperor. Without the Tiger's Claw to defend them, we can crush the rebellion on Ghorah Khar. And then my armada will sweep through the Enigma Sector--- ---to attack the defenseless human colonies WHERE BLAIR, A PILGRIM, MIGHT BE
Emperor: And what of the human pilot who has caused us so much trouble? HE IS A PILGRIM
Thrakhath: Those fools blame HIM for the loss of the Tiger's Claw. He will never fly a fighter again. AND HE IS A PILGRIM.
Emperor: Excellent Without him, the Terrans cannot stand against us Soon Earth itself will be in our grasp. PILGRIM.
[Admiral Tolwyn's Office. Sol Station, Earth.]
Tolwyn: Without your flight recorder as evidence, the court couldn't convict you of anything but negligence... ...but we know the destruction of the Tiger's Claw was your fault, pilot. And I still believe that you're guilty of treason. Your ridiculous claims about a Kilrathi 'cloaking device'--- AND YOU ARE A PILGRIM
Blair: It's true, sir. The Kilrathi have invisible fighters. AND I AM A PILGRIM
Tolwyn: Enough The court already demoted you back to Captain... ...and I plan to see that your career in the Navy is over. My secretary has already drawn up your resignation. ALSO, YOU ARE A PILGRIM!
Blair: I'm not guilty, sir. I won't sign it. AND I AM A PILGRIM.
Tolwyn: Have it your way then, Captain. I have a request from Insystem Security for a veteran pilot. I'm transferring you to the security forces. You'll spend the rest of your career on a space station... ...and you'll be the ISS's problem, not mine. Now get out of here... ...and I hope we never meet again. Traitor. AND YOU ARE A PILGRIM
[Several weeks later...]
[The Hha'ifra, Prince Thrakhath's flagship]
Thrakhath: Khasra What is happening on Ghorah Khar? IS BLAIR A PILGRIM?
Khasra: The rebels have taken the planet, my lord. BECAUSE BLAIR IS A PILGRIM.
Thrakhath: How can these scum turn against their rightful lords? I cannot let them gain my stealth fighter technology Launch a full spread of missiles directly into the Ghorah Khar shipyards. BLAIR IS A PILGRIM.
Khasra: My lord We will lose years of progress And your plans for conquering the Terrans--- (AND BLAIR IS A PILGRIM)
Thrakhath: Will have to wait Launch the attack, Khasra. Then I will return to Hhallas... ...and render an...apology...to the Emperor. AND BLAIR IS A PILGRIM
[Ten years later...]
[Caernarvon Station, Gwynedd System]
[Stardate 2665.112]
[Flight Deck, 1600 hours Caernarvon Station, Gwynedd System. ]
[BLAIR IS A PILGRIM]
Shadow: Well, it's another exciting day at Action Central. Think you're up for it, Maverick? AND ARE YOU STILL A PILGRIM?
Blair: I'm just glad to be out from behind a desk for a while. Even if it is just to fly a patrol in a Ferret. AND TO KEEP BEING A PILGRIM.
Shadow: I like the Ferrets. They're quick and light. But I'd feel safer in a heavier ship like the Rapier. ALSO, YOU ARE A PILGRIM.
Blair: So what's the plan for today, Shadow? Anything new? AM I A PILGRIM?
Shadow: I'm afraid not. We'll fly a standard 'diamond' patrol, checking for any hostiles. You know, all those pirates and Kilrathi just waiting to descend on this place. To be honest, I don't know why we bother. No one's spotted so much as an enemy garbage scow within twenty parsecs of here. AND YOU ARE A PILGRIM.
Blair: Look at it this way, Liz... If we didn't keep the brass happy, they'd give us even less glamorous missions. A joy ride through the asteroid belt's a lot better than writing manpower reports. AND I AM A PILGRIM
Shadow: Right, Maverick. It's been years since I've dusted a garbage scow. AND YOU ARE A PILGRIM.
END PEDRO'S PERFECT WC2 SCRIPT!
Also, in a perfect world, we would add a scene with John Wayne, since he says 'Pilgrim' a lot.
See above.
Lets use the Quotetron 4000 (like the thing Brownhair has) to find out what the very first thing Paladin says to Blair in WC1 is...
"Och, laddy, take a seat an' tilt a glass with ol' Paladin. I recall once when I was just a lieutenant like yourself there... We were flyin' patrol o'er Accord, the fourth planet in the Alliance System."
This proves concisely that they've never met before!
On backwards planet.
If my scope of knowledge was limited to only things Chris Roberts believed for the first half of the 90s, I wouldn't be knowing very much.
(Hey, the WC4 novel was wrong -- the sarcastic response *didn't* take too much work... on the other hand, I could point out that the WCM script's been around since at least WC3, so for at least half of that time Mr. Roberts *did* know about Blair's anscestry...)
Foul, misuse of the term 'we'. Penalty, 10 yards.
There's quite clearly two sets of 'parents' in WCA alone... his actual father and mother and whoever he writes to. The person he writes to (his uncle, according to your vaunted game-sources -- yes, they kill his dad, too...) disagrees with the war and Blair's part in it. And the other person, the one he has a picture of and who appears as a ghost later in the series... WHO'S IN A NAVAL UNIFORM, AND LECTURES HIM ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT IT IS THAT HE'S IN THE MILITARY
That's his real father... the dead one, who was in the navy.No offense, Pedro, but this is the worlds stupidest question. Why were all the problems in WC3 caused by Kilrathi and not GIANT BEES? Because the plot was about a war with the Kilrathi and not GIANT BEES. Now apply this theory to WC2... the plot was about Mandarins and not Pilgrims.
And, of course, ignoring the inherent stupidity of the question (Why wasn't WC1 about cake?!) THERE WERE NO PILGRIMS ANYMORE.
I've taken the liberty of re-writing the Wing Commander 2 intro in a way you and other crazy people will find much more helpful. Which is to say, now every character constantly tells eachother about Blair's religion for no apparent reason.
BEGIN PEDRO'S PERFECT WC2 SCRIPT!
[K'Tithrak Mang Kilrathi Sector HQ]
Emperor: I will speak with Prince Thrakhath alone. Guards, you are dismissed. Arise, grandson. How goes the war against the Terrans? AND BLAIR IS A PILGRIM
Thrakhath: The Terran carrier, Tiger's Claw, tried to attack us here at K'Tithrak Mang. But my stealth fighters destroyed it And soon we will demolish the rest of the human fleet--- ALSO, BLAIR IS A PILGRIM
Emperor: Speak of your plans, not of your toys. Tell me how you will defeat the humans, INCLUDING BLAIR, WHO IS A PILGRIM
Thrakhath: Yes, my Emperor. Without the Tiger's Claw to defend them, we can crush the rebellion on Ghorah Khar. And then my armada will sweep through the Enigma Sector--- ---to attack the defenseless human colonies WHERE BLAIR, A PILGRIM, MIGHT BE
Emperor: And what of the human pilot who has caused us so much trouble? HE IS A PILGRIM
Thrakhath: Those fools blame HIM for the loss of the Tiger's Claw. He will never fly a fighter again. AND HE IS A PILGRIM.
Emperor: Excellent Without him, the Terrans cannot stand against us Soon Earth itself will be in our grasp. PILGRIM.
[Admiral Tolwyn's Office. Sol Station, Earth.]
Tolwyn: Without your flight recorder as evidence, the court couldn't convict you of anything but negligence... ...but we know the destruction of the Tiger's Claw was your fault, pilot. And I still believe that you're guilty of treason. Your ridiculous claims about a Kilrathi 'cloaking device'--- AND YOU ARE A PILGRIM
Blair: It's true, sir. The Kilrathi have invisible fighters. AND I AM A PILGRIM
Tolwyn: Enough The court already demoted you back to Captain... ...and I plan to see that your career in the Navy is over. My secretary has already drawn up your resignation. ALSO, YOU ARE A PILGRIM!
Blair: I'm not guilty, sir. I won't sign it. AND I AM A PILGRIM.
Tolwyn: Have it your way then, Captain. I have a request from Insystem Security for a veteran pilot. I'm transferring you to the security forces. You'll spend the rest of your career on a space station... ...and you'll be the ISS's problem, not mine. Now get out of here... ...and I hope we never meet again. Traitor. AND YOU ARE A PILGRIM
[Several weeks later...]
[The Hha'ifra, Prince Thrakhath's flagship]
Thrakhath: Khasra What is happening on Ghorah Khar? IS BLAIR A PILGRIM?
Khasra: The rebels have taken the planet, my lord. BECAUSE BLAIR IS A PILGRIM.
Thrakhath: How can these scum turn against their rightful lords? I cannot let them gain my stealth fighter technology Launch a full spread of missiles directly into the Ghorah Khar shipyards. BLAIR IS A PILGRIM.
Khasra: My lord We will lose years of progress And your plans for conquering the Terrans--- (AND BLAIR IS A PILGRIM)
Thrakhath: Will have to wait Launch the attack, Khasra. Then I will return to Hhallas... ...and render an...apology...to the Emperor. AND BLAIR IS A PILGRIM
[Ten years later...]
[Caernarvon Station, Gwynedd System]
[Stardate 2665.112]
[Flight Deck, 1600 hours Caernarvon Station, Gwynedd System. ]
[BLAIR IS A PILGRIM]
Shadow: Well, it's another exciting day at Action Central. Think you're up for it, Maverick? AND ARE YOU STILL A PILGRIM?
Blair: I'm just glad to be out from behind a desk for a while. Even if it is just to fly a patrol in a Ferret. AND TO KEEP BEING A PILGRIM.
Shadow: I like the Ferrets. They're quick and light. But I'd feel safer in a heavier ship like the Rapier. ALSO, YOU ARE A PILGRIM.
Blair: So what's the plan for today, Shadow? Anything new? AM I A PILGRIM?
Shadow: I'm afraid not. We'll fly a standard 'diamond' patrol, checking for any hostiles. You know, all those pirates and Kilrathi just waiting to descend on this place. To be honest, I don't know why we bother. No one's spotted so much as an enemy garbage scow within twenty parsecs of here. AND YOU ARE A PILGRIM.
Blair: Look at it this way, Liz... If we didn't keep the brass happy, they'd give us even less glamorous missions. A joy ride through the asteroid belt's a lot better than writing manpower reports. AND I AM A PILGRIM
Shadow: Right, Maverick. It's been years since I've dusted a garbage scow. AND YOU ARE A PILGRIM.
END PEDRO'S PERFECT WC2 SCRIPT!
Also, in a perfect world, we would add a scene with John Wayne, since he says 'Pilgrim' a lot.
See above.
Lets use the Quotetron 4000 (like the thing Brownhair has) to find out what the very first thing Paladin says to Blair in WC1 is...
"Och, laddy, take a seat an' tilt a glass with ol' Paladin. I recall once when I was just a lieutenant like yourself there... We were flyin' patrol o'er Accord, the fourth planet in the Alliance System."
This proves concisely that they've never met before!
On backwards planet.
Come on do you really believe that Chris Roberts knew in WC1, 2, 3, or even 4 that Blair was a pilgrim? Ofcourse not
If my scope of knowledge was limited to only things Chris Roberts believed for the first half of the 90s, I wouldn't be knowing very much.
(Hey, the WC4 novel was wrong -- the sarcastic response *didn't* take too much work... on the other hand, I could point out that the WCM script's been around since at least WC3, so for at least half of that time Mr. Roberts *did* know about Blair's anscestry...)
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I disagree -- since I started from the bottom and worked up, the last bit should be funnier than the first... since by the time I'd gotten to Thrakhath and the Emperor, I'd just given up making sense.
Arcadian15
Spaceman
You know, (and I know I'm going to catch shit for this) but did it seem to anyone else like a lot of WC things that related to blair as soon as Mark Hammill started playing him became very Luke Skywalkeresque? Like the whole bomb run on Kilrah at the end of 3.
I kept excpecting Thrakath to say "Blair I am your father. . . AND YOU ARE A PILGRIM!"
I kept excpecting Thrakath to say "Blair I am your father. . . AND YOU ARE A PILGRIM!"
Zor Prime
That guy.
Loaf, thats just funny. At 230 in the morning, everything is funny. but thats even funnier. PILGRIM. Maybe Loaf is a pilgrim. That would explain his references to blair being a pilgrim. It's way to early in the morning for this. Talk to me later...................................................................................................................................snore.......................................
Unforgiven
Spaceman
A Kilrathi Pilgrim?!?
Another way to create a 'Pedro's perfect WC2 script' is setting Blair's callsign to PILGRIM:
Shadow: Well, it's another exciting day at Action Central. Think you're up for it, Pilgrim?
<snip>
Shadow: Right, Pilgrim. It's been years since I've dusted a garbage scow.
Another way to create a 'Pedro's perfect WC2 script' is setting Blair's callsign to PILGRIM:
Shadow: Well, it's another exciting day at Action Central. Think you're up for it, Pilgrim?
<snip>
Shadow: Right, Pilgrim. It's been years since I've dusted a garbage scow.