I wanna fly the old ships!

MjavTheGray

Spaceman
I know this is not a discussion type question, but a technical one.
Still, I'd ask about extracting models from Standoff.

I die of hunger - I wanna fly old ships in SO.

And I know of guy who once did the extraction of some ships from Standoff and used them in WCSO. Unfortunately he doesn't even remember how did he perform that extraction...

But I hope you'll agree that flying a Jalthi against the bugs would be a pleasure of no small value :)

So, if anyone knows of the extraction - please, tell me how to do this...
 

Jason_Ryock

Vice Admiral
You need the WCPEdit program, so you can swap ships, and then you need Treman, the Tre Manager program.

You can use Treman to extract all the TRE files from the Standoff games, and then use the ship editing program to swap the one you fly for the one you want.

Or you can create your own missions to use the new ships.
 

Ijuin

Admiral
Hmmm although it WOULD be neat to see how well you can do flying the Standoff version of the ships against the Nephilim. The Rapier for example has more agility than the Tigershark, similar weapon strength, and lighter shields and armor.
 

PopsiclePete

Mission programmer
Extracting Standoff's files won't allow you to actually fly them in WCP/SO: what makes a ship is not only it's mesh but also it's stats and armement... in this case, you'd also have to edit WCP or SO's missile and gun files, replacing guns and missiles already used by WCP/SO ships. That, plus the fact that Standoff's ships stats are set to mimic as closely as possible WC2/Priv stats, wich couldn't possibly hold against WCP/SO ships.

In short, if you wanna play old ships against the bugs, play Unknown Enemy, that's currently best way to enjoy it.
 

Jason_Ryock

Vice Admiral
This seems to be a good time to ask...

We know why Cloak wasn't implemented (or at least have two theories), we know why they added all those Confed Capital ships in Secret Ops, we know why they didn't add more rooms to WCSO...

...do we know why the ships in WCSO, specifically the gun and missile armament were changed so radically from their WCP designs?
 

Aginor

Vice Admiral
Without knowing anything for sure, I would guess: They wanted to give the player something new to play with, but didn't have the time/money/whatever to make completely new fighters. :)
 

Sarty

Rear Admiral
This seems to be a good time to ask...

We know why Cloak wasn't implemented (or at least have two theories), we know why they added all those Confed Capital ships in Secret Ops, we know why they didn't add more rooms to WCSO...

...do we know why the ships in WCSO, specifically the gun and missile armament were changed so radically from their WCP designs?

I always assumed it was supposed to be Confed using some of the captured Nephilim tech to create new weaponry and such.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I always assumed it was supposed to be Confed using some of the captured Nephilim tech to create new weaponry and such.

I think it's a little fast for that - Secret Ops takes place only a few days after the end of Prophecy.

The change for the Black ships doesn't interest me that much, since it only makes sense that the secret spacecraft flown by the top crews would be using Confed's latest and most expensive technologies. The new ordinary variants of the Piranha, Tigershark and Vampire, though, are very interesting to me...
 

Sarty

Rear Admiral
Yeah, I guess I never thought of that. The weapons just seemed a lot more radical than most Confed weapons to me, so I just thought 'alien'.
 

Mancubus

Rear Admiral
Well some of the missiles introduced at the end of prophecy (LRIR, LRAR) are said to use bug technology, so why not guns - if Midway transmitted some data to confed, they might have come up with something new during Prophecy
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Yup, they have different specifications and new designations (they're all listed in the Prophecy Gold manual.)
 

Jason_Ryock

Vice Admiral
How very interesting.

I know the Prophecy Manual is online, the Prophecy Gold Manual is not, is it?


EDIT:
Well some of the missiles introduced at the end of prophecy (LRIR, LRAR) are said to use bug technology, so why not guns - if Midway transmitted some data to confed, they might have come up with something new during Prophecy

Personally, this part of the game always bothered me. How exactly does looking at Alien Organic Technology improve the range of standard Confed Missiles?

The Plasma Weapon always bothered me too...the Nephilim had to build a whole ship around it, and the Midway just bolted it on between missions? And if the Nephilim didn't need a catalyst to blow stuff up, why did Confed?

I think this whole plot line was a little weak. But then, I thought the plot of Prophecy was a little weak. As I mentioned in the other thread, I enjoyed talking to everyone on the Victory. The ability to get their opinions and feelings on things, and explore their back story gave the game and it's characters so much added Depth - I think Prophecy really dropped the ball on this. Eventually I got tired of running my mouse over all the people in the Midway Rec Room, because 99% of the time I couldn't talk to any of them anyway.

I've been wondering if maybe I missed watching half the videos of the game, because some of the stuff in the game seemed so off the wall to me it just didn't make any sense.
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
(...)The new ordinary variants of the Piranha, Tigershark and Vampire, though, are very interesting to me...

In which way? I found them highly odd - I never had the impression that the Ion cannon was such an efficient weapon yet it's mounted in every non-flyable Confed fighter.
I guess the designers didn't want to have too many different guns in the game and so excluded Lasers, Mass Drivers and Particle cannons...
 

Jason_Ryock

Vice Admiral
Yup, they have different specifications and new designations (they're all listed in the Prophecy Gold manual.)

The only major difference here seems to be giving up some offensive punch in exchange for speed. The exception to this is the Vampire, which got almost a 100 CM increase in it's shield rating, and the Piranha (Which, interestingly enough is listed as a C variant, instead of a B variant as the others are) which got a significant change to it's gun's load out (which I think was peoples primary complaint about the ship).

What's interesting is that on ships that gave up a varied weapons load out for Ion Cannons, the Gun Power rating doesn't change but the speed increases.

The only conclusion that I can draw from these changes is that Confed wanted to do the following:

1) Simplify the large amount of guns and weapons across every ship for a more standerized loadout. (This fits with Confeds "peace-time" navy philosophy of building 10 big carriers instead of 40 smaller ones)
2) Increase the speed of all the fighters across the board. (This is the one stat that is changed on every ship. And I have to say, after abusing my afterburner so badly to chase down Nephilim skates and stingrays coming after my carrier, this makes a good deal of sense. And that's to say nothing of chasing down Squid fighters.)
3) Increase the offensive capability of the light fighter so it is better able to handle combat situations. (This seems to be the biggest change of all, and I think it would be safe to infer from the C designation on the WCSO Piranha that there was another "lesser" variant in there somewhere that was probably a test run in preparation for upgrading the ship to the more "final" C Version.)

What I find most interesting about all of these combined changes is that it seems Confed is altering the tactical load out of it's fighter wings in a way that leans towards a more offensive capably force. Given that at the end of WCP the Alien Threat is supposed to be Eliminated (And believed to be so again at the end of WCSO) this seems to be a very odd move indeed.
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
Hmm, I think there's a misuderstanding: the B and C variants of the Piranha, Tigershark and Vampire all have the same shield energy as they had in WCP and also there's no speed increase but they simply state the highest you can get when putting all the energy into the engines, it's the same as in WCP.

Also, the end conversation between Casey and Talvert implies that they very well know that the danger is not over, as does the final SOPS fiction, stating that new Worm holes have appeared. So, increasing the offensive power is not so odd.
 

Jason_Ryock

Vice Admiral
So the Stats listed in Gold for WCP are the stats for the ship with systems balanced, and the stats for the WCSO ships are the ships speed with full energy to engines? Is that right?

And your correct about the Vamp, I didn't realize it was speaking about the "enhanced" shield power that you get in the WCP campaign.
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
Yep, considering speed the WCP ships state the balanced speed and the SOPS ships the speed with maximum engine speed.

(I did edit my previous post while you posted, so you might want to check again)
 
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