Hawk in WCP

Chaosbringer

Chaosbringer

Rear Admiral
I'm sorry for this old thing, maybe it's been discussed before, if so, i apologize, but i've been thinking about Hawk in WCP, and what happens after they find the kilrathi. I never liked the way he was killed off in the game. I think the character deserved better. What do you think? I'm talking of course about the "dont attack the cats" option.
 
I would say this was one of the most significant limits of FMV: by the very nature of the system, Hawk had to disappear from the game after he /could/ have died... otherwise you have to double up cutscenes for the rest of the game. It's one of the things that modern CG cutscenes don't have to worry about... they could render or remove Hawk (or Catscratch) on the fly and allow him to live out the rest of the game!
 
My feeling is that WCP's portrayal of this character is still a bit sloppy. Considering WCP is an arcade style game, this design was OK for this game itself. But it was not good enough for the sequel to WC4.

My personal feeling is that Hawk in WCP presented a very different face from the one in WC4 from the beginning, and the game does not tell the player very clearly what caused this change.

In my vision, it might be better if Hawk started out looking like he did in WC4, then mentoring the rookie like a thoughtful senior, slowly telling the protagonist something about his past, including Iceman's story, and throwing out that request for the player to make a choice. I guess this may allow him to better continue his character arc in WC4. But this may require another counterpart character to tell the player some other ideas.
 
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If I recall correctly Maniac mentions something about him in the Novelization of Wing Commander IV.

Something along the lines of he had been an instructor at the academy at one point and that he had win at all costs mentality which led to a cadet getting killed during an exercise.
 
I can only remember that one scene in WC4 in the sleeping quarters, if you can call it sleeping quarters. Hawk did have some Cobra-level disdain for Kilrathi. It came off too sudden with the need to be bloodthirsty against Kilrathi in WCP. I think WCP needed the Yin and Yang between himself and Panther like in WC4. Were there plans to have Panther but the actress wasn't available?
 
Yeah, I think his racism towards the Kilrathi is pretty consistent with Wing Commander IV. When Melek needs help he says "well, I’m not gonna put myself out too much on this Kilrathi foreign aid, that’s for sure. What a waste. I fought those animals in the war. We’d all be a lot better off if their whole kind was obliterated." And there's no redemption arc in there for him.

I also think Prophecy doesn't make his motivation totally clear: they're not just random Kilrathi, they're the same Kilrathi raiders the Midway had been hunting. Casey and Maestro are replacement pilots for two who had just been killed fighting the same pirates... so it's not totally out of left field that he's suddenly gung ho to kill some other beings (I don't think any of that is moral or good but I see how it's intended to motivate the character.)

Something along the lines of he had been an instructor at the academy at one point and that he had win at all costs mentality which led to a cadet getting killed during an exercise.
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You're remembering correctly, but it was actually retcon'd by the Wing Commander Prophecy guide which says he was there for the accident but that the rumor he caused it on purpose isn't true.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
I think his racism towards the Kilrathi is pretty consistent with Wing Commander IV.
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This is not the problem. There is nothing wrong with portrayal of Hawk's racism. But putting aside this issue, Hawk looked like a different character at the beginning of WCP. That is what I feel not suitable.
 
In terms of FMV, let's say Hawk wanted to be a racist killer, since he didn't go murderhobo on Melek, I would have preferred that this clan in particular has bad history with him. And if you back out, Hawk takes some shots at them, ejects and gets sent to a brig. He's out of the picture and you have a "happier" ending.
 
tarsus said:
In terms of FMV, let's say Hawk wanted to be a racist killer, since he didn't go murderhobo on Melek, I would have preferred that this clan in particular has bad history with him. And if you back out, Hawk takes some shots at them, ejects and gets sent to a brig. He's out of the picture and you have a "happier" ending.
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Isn't Melek from the Kiranka clan? I'll bet every Terran had a beef with the ruling clan. Unless they were Mandarins. Given how much Cobra and Hawk hated cats. They must have hated "cat-lovers" even more". The False Armistice did amplify resentment towards anyone who was Kilrathi even after the Treaty of Torgo.
 
Crimsonstar said:
Isn't Melek from the Kiranka clan?
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No.

"Melek began to wish he had never accepted the post as Thrakhath's chee'dyachee. As senior vassal and retainer to the Crown Prince, he wielded great power and commanded much influence . . . and was perfectly placed to watch the Imperial family in the interests of his own Clan."

from CHAPTER XIX of Heart of the Tiger

Judging by the fact that Melek was once a senior vassal of Thrakhath, he may have had the right to add Kiranka to his full name... But according to the rules in Freedom Flight, it might also be "Melek hrai Thrakhath nar Kilrah".

Anyway... From his critical words about Thrakhath and the emperor before he expressed his willingness to surrender to Blair, it is not like he would continue to use names like that.

Crimsonstar said:
The False Armistice did amplify resentment towards anyone who was Kilrathi even after the Treaty of Torgo.
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But when you think about it, it's not suitable to point the finger at every Kilrathi.

First of all, the warring empire was not ironclad, and many clans were disgusted by the dictatorship of the emperor's family, Melek being one of them. And, the matter of the False Armistice was rather complicated; it was a conspiracy of killing two birds with one stone used by the Emperor to strike both internal political enemies and humans. It is also true that some Kilrathi are releasing friendly signals to humans after the war. Together with the dangers of Nephilim, it is necessary for humans to maintain carefully a better relationship with the willing Kilrathi after the war.

In WC4 FMV, at least Eisen, Blair and Sosa got along well with Melek on the Intrepid.
 
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Interesting, i lack a lot of context since i cant get my hands on the novelizations.
But i agree that he seems two different characters, kilrathi hatred apart.
 
Chaosbringer said:
Es tut mir leid für dieses alte Ding, vielleicht wurde es schon einmal diskutiert, wenn ja, entschuldige ich mich, aber ich habe über Hawk in WCP nachgedacht und was passiert, nachdem sie die Kilrathi gefunden haben. Ich mochte nie die Art und Weise, wie er im Spiel getötet wurde. Ich denke, der Charakter hätte etwas Besseres verdient. Was denkst du? Ich spreche natürlich von der Option "Katzen nicht angreifen".
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Generell finde ich es schade, dass Hawk so radikal verändert wurde. Bedenken Sie, dass er in WC4 immer noch neben Melek stand, ohne den Anschein zu erwecken, dass er dabei war, seine Waffe zu ziehen. Und in Prophecy schaltet er das Radio aus und will Befehle missachten und Kilrathi aus dem Stegreif erschießen. Es war alles sehr irrational anders.
 
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