Gilgamesh Class Destroyer

Kilrathikiller

Rear Admiral
Well I was discussing some Wing Commander with one of my friends and he looked at my latest wallpaper for WC2. He never played Wing 2 and we were talking about the ships. He asked what the front pod looking things were on the Gilgamesh. I said they are 2 flak cannons and 2 anti-matter guns. Then he noticed at least one more on the back if not two. Were both wondering what those are if any body knows. The only guess i have is that they are just extension to the front guns. But thought I'd ask to see if anybody else knows
 

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damn, and I thought you guys knew everything there is to wing commander, haha. Alright though, I was just curious. Im just going to go with my thoughts when my friends asks me next time I see him.
 
Can't someone parse a WC-II resourse file which contains data of Gilgamesh?
Surely there will be full specification ?

Not necessarily, LOAF's answer is right (IMO)

Short answer: nobody knows what they are.

Long answer: really, nobody knows what they are.

I don't think the WC2 engine actually had instances of turrets. The ships were sprites and weapons fire seemed to come from the middle of the ship. I'd argue that's why LOAF answered that one so bluntly.

Besides, with Wing Commander, if there was going to be an answer...I would expect it to be in some kind of developer's diary. LOAF and some others here have had excellent opportunities to review such materials (that is, when those exist and they can get a look). If they say "no one knows" I'd take their word for it.
 
damn, and I thought you guys knew everything there is to wing commander, haha. Alright though, I was just curious. Im just going to go with my thoughts when my friends asks me next time I see him.

To be fair, i think the people here have learned all that is learnable about Wing Commander... there are simply some questions that can never be answered because there simply is no fiction around it. We can guess, but we'll never actually know short of getting Chris Roberts here and explaining it to us himself.
 
And possibly not even him, considering there were 2 major games (Prophecy and Secret Ops) and a minor one (Arena) released after he left Origin/EA, plus the metric butt-tonne of projects that never made it out of production
 
To be fair, i think the people here have learned all that is learnable about Wing Commander... there are simply some questions that can never be answered because there simply is no fiction around it. We can guess, but we'll never actually know short of getting Chris Roberts here and explaining it to us himself.


All right, then, let's guess. I'm curious what theories folks could come up with as to what the heck those things are...

Speculation: They're not AM guns or turrets, since we don't see anything similar on Waterloos or Confederations. They're not engines, since we can see the engines elsewhere.

I'm going to guess either fuel tanks of some sort, or some kind of sensor array. Maybe Gilgameshes worked as some kind of AWACS?
 
If there were a 'behind the screens' answer (and I'm not familiar with one) then it would likely disappoint. Does anyone remember the Kilrathi Saga manual's article on the Strakha, which included the original concept sketch? They forgot to airbrush out the artist's helpful arrow which pointed out that the ovals on the wings were "useless pods". The answer is, quite likely, that they're there because they look cool.

I'm going to guess either fuel tanks of some sort, or some kind of sensor array. Maybe Gilgameshes worked as some kind of AWACS?

A destroyer (possibly the heaviest destroyer) seems an unlikely platform for that sort of role. False Colors says that the Confederation used corvette-sized ships for SWACS duties during the war.

Consider the VDU image:

wc2gilgamesh-vdu.gif


It looks to me like there's a weapon at the end of each tube (the red area) and that the tubes themselves aer inhabited (the blue areas). My bet would be that each tube is a torpedo room (four forward facing, two rear).
 
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It looks to me like there's a weapon at the end of each tube (the red area) and that the tubes themselves aer inhabited (the blue areas). My bet would be that each tube is a torpedo room (four forward facing, two rear).

*nods* That's one of two thoughts I had... We never see a destroyer launch a torpedo in WC2, but it's there in the fiction and it makes sense.

The only other thing I could think of would be the "maneuvering/fuel scoops" from the books...but these aren't present on the Concordia or Waterloo of the same era...so that's not as likely.
 
*nods* That's one of two thoughts I had... We never see a destroyer launch a torpedo in WC2, but it's there in the fiction and it makes sense.

The only other thing I could think of would be the "maneuvering/fuel scoops" from the books...but these aren't present on the Concordia or Waterloo of the same era...so that's not as likely.

What do we have on the launch date of the Gilgamesh? Could it be an older design?
 
Good question...there's nothing in the ships database.

As others point out from time to time, there's plenty of ship designs in use by Confed that have been used for a long long time with updates and overhauls.
 
A destroyer (possibly the heaviest destroyer) seems an unlikely platform for that sort of role. False Colors says that the Confederation used corvette-sized ships for SWACS duties during the war.

Consider the VDU image:

wc2gilgamesh-vdu.gif


It looks to me like there's a weapon at the end of each tube (the red area) and that the tubes themselves aer inhabited (the blue areas). My bet would be that each tube is a torpedo room (four forward facing, two rear).

Good thought. And consistent with historical uses of "destroyers". During WWII, even though many large warships other than carriers carried torpedoes, destroyers were actually used to make torpedo attacks against other capital ships. The Japanese destroyers were particularly effective in this role.

One related thought...perhaps they are capship missile tubes? WC2 doesn't mention capship missiles, but we see Kilrathi destroyers launching them (along with bioweapon missiles) in WC3, and we know the concept of a capship missile predates WC1 (because of the skipper that appears in the WC movie). Capship missiles are bulkier than torpedoes, so it would explain the entire pod sticking out from a pretty large ship better than torpedoes would. (After all, didn't a Venture corvette carry something like 6 torpedoes? Also, a Sabre. And a Longbow and Broadsword both carried four. All of these ships did so without the need for big, external pods).
 
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What do we have on the launch date of the Gilgamesh? Could it be an older design?

We do not, but they show up as early as just before Wing Commander I. Blair served for 48 hours on the original TCS Gilgamesh before being assigned to the Tiger's Claw.

Good thought. And consistent with historical uses of "destroyers". During WWII, even though many large warships other than carriers carried torpedoes, destroyers were actually used to make torpedo attacks against other capital ships. The Japanese destroyers were particularly effective in this role.

More importantly, consistent with the various novels written in the wake of Wing Commander II, which have destroyers performing torpedo runs. Although it doesn't specify, Fleet Action's climactic torpedo run sequence must have been crafted with either a Gilgamesh or an Exeter in mind.

One related thought...perhaps they are capship missile tubes? WC2 doesn't mention capship missiles, but we see Kilrathi destroyers launching them (along with bioweapon missiles) in WC3, and we know the concept of a capship missile predates WC1 (because of the skipper that appears in the WC movie). Capship missiles are bulkier than torpedoes, so it would explain the entire pod sticking out from a pretty large ship better than torpedoes would. (After all, didn't a Venture corvette carry something like 6 torpedoes? Also, a Sabre. And a Longbow and Broadsword both carried four. All of these ships did so without the need for big, external pods).

That's possible, too - it couldn't have been the *intention*, since CapShip Missiles are a retcon... but it would fit with the continuity.

I don't think Ventures ever get a stated torpedo complement - and they don't show up in Milk Run, which gives us an incredibly detailed look at the innards of one of those corvettes.

There are different sizes of torpedoes, too - we see models in Fleet Action which are ten meters long (a Sabre carries one of them). The torpedoes in the Wing Commander movie are also enormous, patterned after those used on World War II submarines (and those would be contemporary to the Gilgamesh).

(Aside from Blair's magic strike Sabre, we also see Gothri with six torpedoes... and Paktahn with eight. And that's all before Arena!)

What about the Paradigm?

According to the Origin FX manual, the Paradigm was "one of the Confederation's most advanced" destroyers. Owing to the vagaries of the Privateer manual, we know nothing about its tonnage or length... but its armor certainly seems to be much lower than that of the Gilgamesh.
 
but its armor certainly seems to be much lower than that of the Gilgamesh.

Forgive me, but I don't see how that determination can be made, we see two Gilgamesh class ships lost in WC2, though we don't see them get blown up, I remember having to hammer away at the Paradigm for quite a while before the thing blew up. Though it does seem perhaps a bit smaller, I think in a capship battle, it would not lose to the Gilgamesh.
 
Forgive me, but I don't see how that determination can be made,

This determination can be made since the armor values for both ships have been printed in their game's manuals: 250/250/200 cm for the Gilgamesh and 80/50/65 cm for the Paradigm.
 
I was going to say something about the difference being because they're from different games, entirely...but, there's an assumption implicit to that which I can't back up.

LOAF, maybe you can answer this:
Do you know if the concept of armor value (thickness or "equivalent protection") was normalized across the games from the beginning to the end or did each game make up its own values as it went along?
 
This determination can be made since the armor values for both ships have been printed in their game's manuals: 250/250/200 cm for the Gilgamesh and 80/50/65 cm for the Paradigm.

Apologies, I didnt see it written down. Still... I think that thing would fair well against a Gilgamesh. In terms of Armor, the Gil definitely has it covered, but the Paradigm is armed to the teeth. It would be a good fight.
 
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