Evidence of Destruction.

[frostytheplebe]

The loss of the Tiger's Claw was a major blow to Confed's plan. When Blair claimed that the kilrathi destroyed the TC, was there no investigation?

Tolwyn's calling Blair a traitor, plus his Pilgrim background no doubt, makes me think tolwyn thought Blair destroyed it himself.

The question is... be that the case, shouldn't another ship in the area have investigated the wreck to verify the presence of Kilrathi torpedo debris?

 

[Dundradal]

The loss of the Tiger's Claw was a major blow to Confed's plan. When Blair claimed that the kilrathi destroyed the TC, was there no investigation?

There was an investigation. Blair claimed to have seen "stealth fighters" however his flight recorder was missing. He was found guilty of dereliction of duty IIRC because it was believed the Kilrathi that destroyed the Claw came through his patrol sector.

Tolwyn's calling Blair a traitor, plus his Pilgrim background no doubt, makes me think tolwyn thought Blair destroyed it himself.

The question is... be that the case, shouldn't another ship in the area have investigated the wreck to verify the presence of Kilrathi torpedo debris?

They knew the Kilrathi had destroyed the Claw, however the Claw never got a warning of incoming Kilrathi fighters and were caught flat footed. They blamed Blair for failing to warn the ship and for "making up" his story of stealth fighters.

 

[Mace]

IIRC, blair saw shadows on his rader and flew out to investigate, thereby leaving his normal patrol schedule, adn confed had thought the claw was hit by a wave of bombers that blair should have seen since they had crossed his path that he was investigating in the first place.

An interesting point of discussion in the example you give would be the strakha from WCA. wich was invisible to radar but painted black, so hard to spot with the naked eye.

 

[Catnip]

I think there was an investigation. The story of the incident as recounted in the "universe bible" hosted on the CIC says that the Claw's data recorder had been recovered, and that it showed the fighters that destroyed the ship had come from the sector Blair was patrolling.

The way it looks to me, Tolwyn believed...
* that Blair contacted the Kilrathi, told them the Claw's location and that most fighters were out on patrol, and let them pass through his sector.
* that Blair came up with "invisible fighters" story to cover his ass and removed his own flight recorder so it couldn't be proven or disproven.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

The question is... be that the case, shouldn't another ship in the area have investigated the wreck to verify the presence of Kilrathi torpedo debris?

The others are correct, regarding the investigation and Tolwyn's beliefs... but you're also forgetting that the wreck in question was deep within enemy space.

The attack on K'Tithrak Mang wasn't the culmination of a campaign like the fighting at Venice; it was a sneakier attempt to decapitate the Kilrathi command in the sector.

 

[frostytheplebe]

There was an investigation. Blair claimed to have seen "stealth fighters" however his flight recorder was missing. He was found guilty of dereliction of duty IIRC because it was believed the Kilrathi that destroyed the Claw came through his patrol sector.

But did they ever establish any kind of a motive?

 

[AD]

But did they ever establish any kind of a motive?

No, but that was kind of the point. The evidence showed he was negligent because he left his patrol but they couldn't prove anything else... That's why Tolwyn sent Blair to the ISS.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

The way it looks to me, Tolwyn believed...
* that Blair contacted the Kilrathi, told them the Claw's location and that most fighters were out on patrol, and let them pass through his sector.
* that Blair came up with "invisible fighters" story to cover his ass and removed his own flight recorder so it couldn't be proven or disproven.

I always thought the second option was more likely (if Tolwyn *really* believed Blair were a Kilrathi agent, wouldn't he be willing to go outside the law to stop him?)... but I looked back at Wing Commander II's intro earlier and it's pretty clear that Tolwyn is accusing him of treason rather than cowardice.

 

[Delance]

Yeah, Tolwyn is clear on expressing his opinion about Blair being a tratior. Here's the transcript, thanks to Wedge009.

Admiral Tolwyn’s Office. Sol Station, Earth.
Tolwyn: Without your flight recorder as evidence, the court couldn’t convict you of anything but negligence. But I know the destruction of the Tiger’s Claw was your fault. And I still believe that you’re guilty of treason. Your ridiculous claims about a Kilrathi ‘cloaking device’–
Maverick: It’s true, sir. The Kilrathi have invisible fighters–
Tolwyn: Enough! The court already demoted you to Captain, and as far as I’m concerned, your career in the Navy is over. My secretary has already drawn up your resignation.
Maverick: I’m not guilty, sir. I won’t sign it.
Tolwyn: Have it your way then, Captain. I have a request from In-System Security for a veteran pilot. I’m transferring you to the security forces. You’ll spend the rest of your career on a space station… You’ll be the ISS’s problem, not mine. Now get out of here… and I hope we never meet again. Traitor.

Anyway, since Blair gets to be known as The Coward of K'Tithrak Mang, and not as The Traitor, it seems people just see him as a coward, but not necessarily a traitor. If Tolwyn really thought Blair was a traitor, would he let him fly a fighter, or a bomber with torpedoes? Apparently all a traitor can do is play the Piano using his gala outfit. While Tolwyn cleary thinks Blair is unreliable, it's not so clear that he still believes Blair worked with the Kilrathi: (thanks to Wedge009 again)

Paladin: Geoff, there’s somethin’ else I wanted to talk to you about. I want you to give Maverick a fair shake. He’s a fine pilot, and a good soldier.
Tolwyn: I disagree. You can’t depend on him. Ask anyone who served on the Tiger’s Claw… if you can find any of them. They’re rather scarce these days.
Paladin: I served on the Claw, Geoff. Ye got him worked out all wrong. In my line of work, if ye canna size up a man’s character, ye dinna last long.
Tolwyn: In your line of work, James, treachery is par for the course.
Paladin: I was an officer like yourself until a few years ago, Admiral. An’ I’ve served ye well since then. You wouldn’t hae captured Ghorah Khar wi’out me and Ralgha. If ye trusted me then, an’ ye did… then trust me now. Maverick isn’t the enemy.
Tolwyn: He’ll have to prove that to me, James.

Tolwyn: And finally, Ralgha, if you won’t accept my recommendation that you select another wingman… then I urge you to watch your back. Blair certainly won’t.
Hobbes: Admiral, I must disagree! To question Maverick’s courage…
Tolwyn: Is standard procedure these days, Ralgha. As you were.

 

[Catnip]

Yeah, it's weird how Tolwyn was absolutely sure that Blair sold-out his carrier to the Kilrathi... then puts the guy in a fighter, where he can sell-out another carrier to the Kilrathi. There don't seem to be any particular measures in place to stop the same thing from happening to the Concordia. I guess it's all good to Tolwyn if the ship goes down in flames, as long as he can stand on the bridge and sneer "See! I told you Blair couldn't be trusted!"

 

[frostytheplebe]

I guess it's all good to Tolwyn if the ship goes down in flames, as long as he can stand on the bridge and sneer "See! I told you Blair couldn't be trusted!"

Sounds like Tolwyn to me.

 

[J "Phantom" D]

Yeah, it's weird how Tolwyn was absolutely sure that Blair sold-out his carrier to the Kilrathi... then puts the guy in a fighter, where he can sell-out another carrier to the Kilrathi. There don't seem to be any particular measures in place to stop the same thing from happening to the Concordia. I guess it's all good to Tolwyn if the ship goes down in flames, as long as he can stand on the bridge and sneer "See! I told you Blair couldn't be trusted!"

Yeah, that sounds about right.

However, I think that Tolwyn's attitude changes ever so slightly over the years.

Right after the incident he's convinced that Blair is a traitor. However, after the 10 years passes he just seems to think that Blair is incompetent/unreliable. He may suspect that Blair is a traitor, but what's the best way to catch a traitor? Make them think that all is well and keep an extra eye on them until they screw up. No doubt Tolwyn did a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff that we don't see (i.e. have extra fighters on standby while Blair was on patrol, etc).

Anyways, it's either that his attitude actually changes (maybe he reviewed all of the flight recordings and logs over and over again in those 10 years) or he's softened his attitude just a tiny bit in order to try to make Blair feel a little safer so that he can catch Blair in an act of treason.

 

[Catnip]

That's a good point.

It's also interesting that even after Blair clears his name at K'Tithrak Mang and Tolwyn starts acting like a human being, the idea of Blair being a traitor seems to be just under the surface. If you blow-up the Gamal Gan (the Kilrathi freighter that surrenders to you in SO2), Tolwyn immediately concludes that you're a Mandarin agent and has you arrested.

 

[Quarto]

It's also interesting that even after Blair clears his name at K'Tithrak Mang and Tolwyn starts acting like a human being, the idea of Blair being a traitor seems to be just under the surface. If you blow-up the Gamal Gan (the Kilrathi freighter that surrenders to you in SO2), Tolwyn immediately concludes that you're a Mandarin agent and has you arrested.

Well, that only happens because it was necessary as a gameplay device - you infiltrate Mandarin territory onboard the captured Kilrathi freighter. So they couldn't very well just slap your wrist if you destroyed it - it was a campaign-stopper.

 

[Dundradal]

It's also interesting that even after Blair clears his name at K'Tithrak Mang and Tolwyn starts acting like a human being, the idea of Blair being a traitor seems to be just under the surface. If you blow-up the Gamal Gan (the Kilrathi freighter that surrenders to you in SO2), Tolwyn immediately concludes that you're a Mandarin agent and has you arrested.

It's also interesting to think of the Tolwyn-Blair relationship in respect to the Tolwyn-Bondarevsky relationship. Bear was put in a difficult spot during the Gettysburg situation, but Tolwyn ultimately sees the good in the man and takes him under his wing to a large extent, even nominating him for the WC slot on the TCS Tarawa when he's still fairly young. Their relationship grows in much a different manner than Tolwyn-Blair. Bear gets recruited for the Free Corps mission while Blair is not reached out too, despite his service to Tolwyn.

 

[Quarto]

The thing to remember is that Blair and Tolwyn had fallen out even before the Tiger's Claw was destroyed. I remember finding it rather weird that in WC3, Tolwyn hates Blair again - but when you think about it, it's actually weird that he seems to like Blair in SO1&2. It's pretty much impossible to instantly forget that you disliked and distrusted someone for a decade.

As for Bear, their relationship actually grows in exactly the same manner as the Blair-Tolwyn relationship. Sending the Tarawa on a suicide mission is a mirror of the last episode of the Academy cartoon. The difference is that where Blair angrily rejected the idea that anyone could be regarded as expendable (he probably would have been more understanding had he known what Tolwyn himself was told by his superiors), Bear accepted this concept.

 

[Delance]

I don’t think Tolwyn hates Blair on WC3. He might not particularly like Blair on a personal level, or maybe he is too busy to express warmer sentiments as on SO1 and SO2. But he explicitly respects and trusts Blair enough to personally select him to protect his ultimate weapon.

 

[Dundradal]

As for Bear, their relationship actually grows in exactly the same manner as the Blair-Tolwyn relationship. Sending the Tarawa on a suicide mission is a mirror of the last episode of the Academy cartoon. The difference is that where Blair angrily rejected the idea that anyone could be regarded as expendable (he probably would have been more understanding had he known what Tolwyn himself was told by his superiors), Bear accepted this concept.

Perhaps, but on the same token, Tolwyn didn't know why he was asked to pick some of his best people for the Tarawa until much later. He also makes it fairly clear to Bear that he will do what he can to make sure they aren't left behind. After Concordia saves the Tarawa, their relationship diverges from the Tolwyn-Blair formula.