Enjoy Intractive Movies (July 16, 2007)

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Here's one for England: the Wing Commander movie will air in HD this Friday (July 20th) on SkyMovies HD1. It will be shown twice, at 12:00 and 18:05 local time. Their page for the film is here. They've come to an odd - and unique - conclusion about Wing Commander:
As science-fiction goes, Wing Commander is decidedly un-cool, yet ironically, probably the most realistic depiction of future space travel... with a little rust around the edges.
Realistic?! Let's push them off the flight deck! Nevertheless, when it comes to visuals the movie shines - I wish I could see it in High Definition!



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Original update published on July 16, 2007
 
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Well the good news is that this movie is crappy and unpopular enough that should be on HDNet Movies here in the states soon enough. And I agree with you LOAF about that conclusion being odd... I think Wing Commander is a little too "cool" being that it stars hunks of the moment Freddy Prinze Jr and Matthew Lillard as Maverick and Maniac, in place of the gloriously uncool Luke Skywalker and Biff, and I don't see what about could possibly be interpretted as "Realistic" about it.

I mean it's not that it's an awful movie... it's just a typical video game adaptation: low budget, and zero adherance to existing story canon, which in this case is truly unforgivable on account of it having been written and directed by Chris Roberts which was competely unprecedented in the industry, and thanks to this debacle likely something we'll likely never see again.

The case of Wing Commander is unique among video game adaptation in that is the most notable example of a game being littleraly a better movie than the movie adaptation, that is to say both Wing Commanders III and IV, and (to a lesser extent) Prophacy, had stronger casts and better scripts than Wing Commander the movie. Also, I know that Chris Roberts never managed to get the Kilrathi's appearance dialed in exactly how he wanted, but the rubber masks in this movie are just plain terrible.

That said, I do hope it comes to HD Net Movies, it is part of the Wing Commander Legacy, and deffinately worthy of a place on my DVR.
 
Well, that didn't take long. Only your second post, and already you've blundered into one of the traditional errors made by new members, in this case "I'm too cool to use the search function".

In particular, I'm referring the "zero adherence to existing story canon" bit, which has been explained time and time again as being, bluntly, bullshit.
 
I think Wing Commander is a little too "cool" being that it stars hunks of the moment Freddy Prinze Jr and Matthew Lillard as Maverick and Maniac, in place of the gloriously uncool Luke Skywalker and Biff, and I don't see what about could possibly be interpretted as "Realistic" about it.

The casting is more of a coincidence -- they signed on for Wing Commander when they were affordable, moments before becoming stars-of-the-moment in 1999-2000. I actually really like the casting in the movie in general - I enjoy the idea of the gritty veterans all being very experienced European character actors while the wet-behind-the-ears new pilots are American teen stars.

(That said, I don't think there's any question that casting Mark Hamill in the Luke Skywalker role in Wing Commander III was a stunt, either...)

I mean it's not that it's an awful movie... it's just a typical video game adaptation: low budget, and zero adherance to existing story canon, which in this case is truly unforgivable on account of it having been written and directed by Chris Roberts which was competely unprecedented in the industry, and thanks to this debacle likely something we'll likely never see again.

I'm willing to bet Chris will direct another movie at some point... if nothing else, he is very, *very* good at convincing people to give him support for things. He's made quite a name for himself in Hollywood as a Producer in recent years.

As for the story, I think it's always been something of a misconception that Chris Roberts is a master of the game's continuity. In actuality that's something for us geeks... he wrote the original setting document for the first game (human empire is fighting evil aliens), but the actual story planning and scriptwriting was done by other people on every other Wing Commander.

The case of Wing Commander is unique among video game adaptation in that is the most notable example of a game being littleraly a better movie than the movie adaptation, that is to say both Wing Commanders III and IV, and (to a lesser extent) Prophacy, had stronger casts and better scripts than Wing Commander the movie. Also, I know that Chris Roberts never managed to get the Kilrathi's appearance dialed in exactly how he wanted, but the rubber masks in this movie are just plain terrible.

As a Wing Commander fan I certainly prefer the games... but I don't think this point is actually true. Seeing Mark Hamill and Steven Petraca play 'you' is amazingly fun, but they aren't outstanding actors by any stretch of the imagination. Similarly, I don't think someone can objectively say that the Wing Commander movie's elaborate sets and actual fighters aren't better than the games mid-90s CGI greenscreen mattes and cardboard Hellcat dashboards.

I'd say that none of them have especially coherent scripts... although the movie obviously suffers from having had its entire climax gutted after being shot. In general they do different things, though - in a video game you play for ten hours you can meander through Flint talking about her dad and Vagabond worrying about Doctor Severin... in a movie you need to stick to a story and push your way through it consistently. It's nostalgia clouding our judgement here. Lots of things about Wing Commander III just wouldn't stand up to higher criticism. (...'and also your friend was a traitor for some reason')
 
Well, that didn't take long. Only your second post, and already you've blundered into one of the traditional errors made by new members, in this case "I'm too cool to use the search function".

In particular, I'm referring the "zero adherence to existing story canon" bit, which has been explained time and time again as being, bluntly, bullshit.

Um... ok.

I really don't think anything I said there was deserving of that heavy handed, "shut the hell up stupid newb response". But sorry to offend. Also to simply write something off as "bullshit" is hardly objective. And yes, I have read the continuity discussions, here and elsewhere, and the reason there are so many is precisously because there simply no way to make it all jibe. Any time, you try to set up a honest to god time line, you have to fudge because some things don't add up. There is a lot about Wing Commander the movie that is very diffrent from what had been established up to that point, that's just the way it is, honestly I really wasn't trying to imply that it's all that big a deal, and I certainly wasn't trying to reignite a continuity debate, because as you so politely pointed out there are plenty of those already.

As LOAF pointed out "In actuality that's something for us geeks," which if you really get down to it means that at some point, it comes down to a judgement call, and I was pointing out that, if anything, I can't judge the Wing Commander movie as fitting in to the continuity established in the Wing Commander game series for a number of reasons.

But anyway, thanks for the warm welcome.
 
...oh and the "if you die you never existed" thing is stupid, not to mention pretty insensitive of people who do actually die in wars, and the people they leave behind. Of course I relize that wasn't the sort of thing anyone cared about in 1999.

Yes, I understand the whole point is that it's a stupid idea, but how is it that only two people in the whole Navy understand that it's a dumb idea? And I mean, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about when i'm talking about inconsistancy, sure Death can tell me I'm full of "blunty, bullshit" because the fact that nothing in any game proves that there wasn't a culture in the Navy of denying the existed of dead comrads, you can say, "Blair and Maniac changed that culture, by pointed out how stupid it was in the movie!" But does really make any sence that two FNG pilots can completely change a Naval tradition overnight? Or that a french guy wakes up Scottish?

Am also expected to accept that the fact that Blair can run a jump route on instinct in non-jump capable ship with no navigation aids won't ever be relevent again (or even that it makes any sence logical sence)?
 
Yes, I understand the whole point is that it's a stupid idea, but how is it that only two people in the whole Navy understand that it's a dumb idea? And I mean, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about when i'm talking about inconsistancy, sure Death can tell me I'm full of "blunty, bullshit" because the fact that nothing in any game proves that there wasn't a culture in the Navy of denying the existed of dead comrads, you can say, "Blair and Maniac changed that culture, by pointed out how stupid it was in the movie!" But does really make any sence that two FNG pilots can completely change a Naval tradition overnight? Or that a french guy wakes up Scottish?

No one is more blunt than Death. :)

Let me preface my comments with the fact that I completely agree with you - this is handled very poorly in the film, and I groan somewhat whenever I think about it. Not only is it poorly explained in the movie itself but it's also the proverbial nail stuck out for critics to grab hold of very easily.

That said, I think you're reading more into it than the movie ever meant. It isn't a Navy tradition (I agree, that would be insulting) - it's something specific to Angel's squadron, caused by her own desire to detach herself from emotional interaction. If it were some general futuristic tradition then Blair and Maniac would surely already know about it - they've gone through years at the Naval Academy and they've already served on active duty warships as midshipmen.

(From a broader continuity perspective, the Confederation Handbook published along with the movie confirms that it's something Angel is responsible for. Commander Gerald notes in her officer evaluation that he doesn't approve of the practice.)

I also wonder if it's the lesser of two evils. Obviously from a dramatic standpoint you have Blair and Maniac have some impact on the veteran pilots. The obvious alternative is to make them superstar pilots who impress everyone with their abilities, or something along those lines - and I like the basic *idea* that they're reminding the people who've been on the front line of their humanity in the face of a dehumanizin war... but it should have been presented better.

Am also expected to accept that the fact that Blair can run a jump route on instinct in non-jump capable ship with no navigation aids won't ever be relevent again (or even that it makes any sence logical sence)?

The movie Rapier had a jump drive - when Blair jumps to Earth he says "Firing jump drive" and flips a switch in his cockpit labeled JUMP DRIVE.

(This is something else the movie has problems with, though these have more to do with so much material being cut. The idea is that there are ordinary jump points everywhere that anyone can use... and then special ones through things like Pulsars and Quasars that need *either* the brain of a Pilgrim or the NAVCOM AI device. The Kilrathi have stolen the NAVCOM so they can jump straight to Earth throuh a Quasar. An earlier Wing Commander story actually synchs up with this - with Tolwyn sending Blair to jump a special Pulsar in the 'Expendable' episode of Wing Commander Academy.)
 
(This is something else the movie has problems with, though these have more to do with so much material being cut. The idea is that there are ordinary jump points everywhere that anyone can use... and then special ones through things like Pulsars and Quasars that need *either* the brain of a Pilgrim or the NAVCOM AI device. The Kilrathi have stolen the NAVCOM so they can jump straight to Earth throuh a Quasar. An earlier Wing Commander story actually synchs up with this - with Tolwyn sending Blair to jump a special Pulsar in the 'Expendable' episode of Wing Commander Academy.)

I like to entertain the notion that Blair's insight about how to close in the Vesuvius on WCIV had something to do with his Pilgrim abilities, especially since IIRC WCIV was the first time the notion of Pilgrims as separate from mankind showed up - in the form of "Border Worlders", which was how Pilgrims were described on early movie scripts. But the WCP map makes it clear that the particular jump point used was a normal one. On the other hand, Tolwyn is pretty surprised to see Blair hot on his tail when he was about to jump to Sol, which gives the distinct impression that it was no ordinary maneuver that led him there. But it was probably because he didn’t expect Blair to use the Ella jump point, either because it was too dangerous to face the Confed forces there, or because he considered Blair wouldn’t be willing to destroy the Ella superbase. That is, anyway, one of the WCIV’s more effective FMV scenes. However, my point is this: on the original ideas of WCIV, did the Border Worlders had the pilgrim abilities, or was that concept developed later on, for the movie?
 
And yes, I have read the continuity discussions, here and elsewhere, and the reason there are so many is precisously because there simply no way to make it all jibe. Any time, you try to set up a honest to god time line, you have to fudge because some things don't add up.

The timeline fits together amazingly well. The movie is a brief two days prior to WC1. The movie novelization gives us the exact dates, and they fit in just fine prior to WC1. The Wing Commander Arena timeline presents all of this together as one.
 
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