Hey, does anybody out there have any 3-D models of the Ekapshi, or still images from the top down and right-hand side? I don't care about the file format; I just need something.
Well the best "official" render is from the Kilrathi Saga manual I could take some pictures from the ingame model if you desperately need "canon" material, but in the meantime i'd like to point you to this awesomely detailed model from the Wing Commander Saga team:
Here's a better resolution version of the canonical Ekapshi: http://www.wcnews.com/newestshots/full/EKAPSHI.png
I appreciate the perspective shot, Bandit LOAF. What I needed was the side shots - one from the top down, one from the side, so unfortunately the hi-res shot doesn't help me much. I'm basically just trying to get the craft's overall dimensions (for WCRPG, naturally) and the Saga craft is close enough for jazz.
Yeah, it only got minimal changes, such as the longer fuselage part where the cockpit is. I'm not sure how you determine your stats out of that but they won't be very different.
Well, since you asked, here's how I do it: I crack open the image in MS Paint (because it's got to be good for something). I take the top down picture and measure the length of the craft in pixels, then get the beam (wingspan) in pixels. I do the same for the side view; length in pixels, then draft in pixels. The Ekapshi, like many craft, has a recorded length stat (in this case, sixteen meters). That enables me to calculate a scale for both images (in meters per pixel), which then enables me to derive the craft's beam and draft. For bounding box data, it's then just length times width times height. There are some rounding errors involved with this method, but it gives me a good enough ball-park figure to work with. For example, for the Saga Ekapshi image (the longer cockpit doesn't matter, because the craft's length will be from the back of the airfoils to the point of the wingtips): Top-Down: Length: 10-394 = 384 pixels ==> 16.00 meters (0.0416 meters/pixel) Beam: 29-334 = 305 pixels ==> 12.71 meters (0.416 * 305 = 12.7083) Side View: Length: 397-781 = 384 pixels ==> 16.00 meters (I can't always count on both images being the exact same scale. It just happened to work out that way this time.) Draft: 182-285 = 103 pixels ==> 4.29 meters Bounding Box: 16.00 m * 12.71 m * 4.29 m = 872.4144 m^3 (which in WCRPG would then translate to Size Class 8 and the Light Military Fightercraft Chassis)
Doing the P2 ships is going to be tricky since there is no listed length stat for them. Anybody know where I can get a P2 design doc that includes ship data? The shipaliens.doc file proved very useful for the Nephilim craft...
I don't know if such a document exists, but I am waiting for a crate of Privateer 2 material to arrive in the mail from England as we speak.
If that's what you do, i'd like to point out that i don't know if i rendered every angle with the same zoom factor. The Saga model dimensions in PCS2 are however: H: 7.99, W: 13.98, D: 18.35, Mass: 644.522705 If you still want to go pixelhunting, i'd suggest having someone take ingame screenshots of the Ekapshi, but that way you'd have to regard FOV and stuff. I'd do it myself, but i don't have a savegame with an Ekapshi mission currently, and the Kilrathi Saga Mission Editor doesn't let me place Ekapshis unfortunately.
Ingame sizes are meant to fit to each other while some canonical sizes don't make any sense at all compared to what you actually see in cutscenes and/or ingame. (IIRC neither the Longbow nor the Broadsword would actually fit into the carrier's hangars when using canonical sizes.) So when in doubt use the canonical sources or something derived from it, that's the way you won't get too much problems with people complaining over non-canonical things. I think almost every mod/project in existence used one or the other technique to make things fitting. Also you can use the D&D approach and just use 6-8 size classes in order not to go insane. If you get grey hair while doing this, remember that I've warned you.
It's been a while since i read the novels or played through all games, but wasn't the Broadsword size the whole reason for the Crossbow and reconfiguring the Sabre as a bomber, with the Broadsword not fitting into the hangars of escort carriers?
Yeah, the Broadsword was too big, which is why the Wake-class used Sabres in the torpedo bomber role. Lemme see...ah, here's what I figured for the Broadsword (from the WC2 manual). 826 1139 length = 36 m / 313 pixels 196 367 draft = 19.67 m/ 171 pixels 399 705 beam = 35.19 m / 306 pixels bb = 24,918.7428 (SC 13) Probably that twenty-meter draft that was the limitation there... Incidentally, the Broadsword you see in Privateer is much smaller...but it's also a lot weaker; not really a bomber at that point, more of a missile boat. 144 272 = 128 ==> 24.00 length 218 420 = 202 ==> 37.88 beam 16 178 = 162 ==> 24.00 length 90 160 = 70 ==> 10.37 draft bb = 9,427.57 m^3 (SC11) Here's the Sabre (from the WC2 manual): 109 - 1206 = 1097 ==> 23.60 m length 289 - 791 = 502 ==> 10.80 m draft 833 - 1727 = 894 ==> 19.23 m beam bb = 4,901.34 m^3 (SC10) And finally the Crossbow (from the CIC ship database): 192 328 = 136 ==> 24.00 m length 211 242 = 31 ==> 5.47 m draft 173 316 = 143 ==> 25.24 m beam bb=3,313.51 m^3 (SC10) Shouldn't matter; each individual view ought to be proportional to itself, hence the reason why I measure the length in both pics. Let's see what that turns up... D: 18.35 == 16.00 m (0.8719 m/distance unit) W: 13.98 == 12.19 m H: 7.99 == 6.97 m bb = 1,359.43 m^3 (SC8) So, a little bit different. Not sure why I was so far off on the height... Of course, I'm using the D&D approach. And I already have grey hair, but thanks for your concern anyways... End Run. It's one of Bondarevsky's complaints about the Wake-class when he first arrives, IIRC.
Ok, I should have known it was End Run since that was the only WC book I have read completely yet (some years ago). Concerning the Broadsword: Yes, the height is the biggest problem. If you build a shield bubble or collision box (even a small one) around it that adds a few meters extra and you hit the hangar ceiling in a Yorktown. Width is no problem here, the hangar is ~40 m wide IIRC. Numbers from the top of my head though (and as we know from the Hellcat thread my memory isn't that good anymore it seems )
Just for fun i adjusted the Privateer Broadsword and the Saga Confederation class to their WC2 sizes. It doesn't quite fit in the hangar either, but considering the Saga Confed has different proportions (and is an update anyway) it might actually not be that far off at all. For comparison, these are the official Origin WC2 models (size adjusted too) The only really fitting Broadsword/Confederation class seem to be the Standoff versions, before AND after adjustment. But it's a close call even then, no drinks for any bomber pilot if you care for your paint.
Then where did I get those figures......? <shuffling /> Oh, dammit. Yep. Secrets of the Wing Commander Universe. Which as you've reminded me a couple of times in recent weeks, Bandit LOAF, is not canon. As big of a problem as that creates for me, it also solves one: the four player craft from Privateer were all showing up as being way too big...I was going to have to put the Orion on a Destroyer chassis, that big. Sooooooooooo...............................................................any design docs that might say how big the ships from Privateer 1 are supposed to be? No? Crap.
Well, what you *could* do is: We have the official Origin Privateer ship and cockpit models. The ship models aren't scaled to each other (maybe the SOWCU guys thought they are, that might have led to the problems), but the cockpit meshes roughly fit into their according ships if you adjust the size. Resize everything to a regular human (use the cockpit seat as reference) and you might not have an official, "canon" size, but at least a pretty reasonable one. Of course for the ships without a seperate cockpit mesh, that involves a lot of guessing. The Talon for example is probably a one-man fighter, but for all we know there could be 4 seats in the cockpit.
