Drayman firepower

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ilricca

Spaceman
I have played Privateer, the old Privateer I mean, and, since then, I have a question: why the Drayman has so little firepower?
As we know well, in Privateer the Drayman is the pinnacle of the merchant ship: slow and unmanoeuvrable, ok, but with a lot of space.
And a firepower that is a fraction of the Galaxy.
But in the original Privateer this was not a problem because the Drayman was not a buyable ship.
In Privateer Remake...

In Privateer Remake the Drayman should/could be the Paradigm of the merchants, not a bigger version of the Tarsus (thus a big flying coffin)...
Maybe the Drayman should have the historical 2 forward mounts and 2 or 3 trurrets with light gun mounts, just to keep the pirates at a bay, not to attack fleets of Kamekh...
Or maybe the Drayman should have just 2 turrets, one forward and one aft...
 
well we'd prefer to keep it as close to the original as possible...and that means not changing the stats of ships we know all about.

It's a ship that needs an escort...buy an escort then :)
 
You are right, but I think that in the Old Privateer the Drayman was underpowered because it was intended as...
1) an easy prey for the pirates. The pirates are pirates: they attack weak targets in order to obtain their necessary goods.
No weak targets --> no necessary goods --> nearly no pirates.
Privateer without pirates? Bleah!
Ok, if we pump the firepower of the Drayman the Drayman will be a "strong" (for the pirates, anyway) target, but only if we exceed in the firepower. Two or three turrets armed with lasers are a deterrent for the lone pirate, not for a flotilla of Daggers!
2) a capital ship for safer sectors.
In the sectors presented in Privateer the Drayman is durable like a buffalo in a sea full of sharks...
 
Out of curiosity, when you say you're trying to keep as close to the original as possible... are you relying on the stats provided in the manual, or the actual in-game stats?

(and if you're going by the in-game stats, how did you go about extracting them?)
 
QUARTO: Nice question.
OVERMORTAL: little guy, I am from the old 1971, and this means that I have played from the beginning of the video-game era to, well, yesterday night.
I have seen countless games, and countless worthless (capital and not so-) ships.
The Drayman, sadly, now is one of them.
I am from the school "One ship, one purpose". A ship without purpose, in my magical world, should be wiped out from the universe.
We have the capability, and the possibility, to transform the Drayman into something useful.
So, why we don't do it?
 
Because that would be very, very much non-canon?

It's a trashhauler. It's not supposed to have good weapons. And I don't remember it having very good ones in the original, too.
 
Ok, it's non-canon, only because the ship is non-canon: in the Old Privateer the Drayman was not a buyable ship, don't you know?
::eek:
And: an harmelss trash-hauler in a world full of Retro, Pirates and Kilrathi? Why one should construct this and, especially, why one should buy this?
The point is: the Drayman is worthless (maybe with an escort, but I like the "Lonely Hero" style...).
 
Guys, let it rest. It's a Priv remake, so the focus is on recreating the experience. Since the platform used has its differences from what we are used to, it will not BE the same experience.
Nothing against slightly different handling or interfaces, because I can compare it to the past. Nothing against an easter egg like getting access to a piece of equipment or a ship that you usually wouldn't dream of. But changing the balance by modifying a sitting duck into something close to a civilian corvette will definitely change the game experience.
If you want a "Privateer Enhanced", then ask for the code and bolt on your modifications - it's and open source project, AFAIK.
 
ilricca said:
little guy, I am from the old 1971, and this means that I have played from the beginning of the video-game era to, well, yesterday night.

And you show up in an internet community where you have no clout and complain about a remake of a video game, and when someone who has been here longer than you gives you a mild ribbing, you break out the "I'm so much older and more experienced than you, son." routine. I hate to borrow ideas from others, but I believe Psych would predict that soon you'll be claiming that "WC conservatives are killing the WC universe" and "I have the right of free speech!", or even "I merely have a different opinion".

Trust me, "big guy", aside from causing the creators of this mod to momentarily consider your terrible plight before shooting your idea to pieces, all you've done here is noob-out like a 14 year-old kid. (Sorry if I've insulted any of our 14 year-old members).

Furthermore, chances are I outmass and outweigh you, unless you're a very fat person.

In short, when members of an internet forum (who have more time there than you) prove your idea dumb (or, in this case, simply tells you to stop crying), the best thing to do is listen.
 
Now wait, everyone has a right to an opinion - Overmortal should never, ever be able to threaten someone into not expressing one (especially because Overmortal isn't exactly a star player here).

The guy has a legitimate point, which is easily something the Privateer remake team might be interested in doing in their enhanced version of the game -- and something that it would be neat to see. Add the weapons mounts from the Drayman mentioned in the 'Gemini Sector' prologue (torpedo mounts, additional turrets - if you guys want it I'll flesh it out).

And if Quarto is interested in extracting the stats from the game, I have the instructions for what all the hex codes in the ship files mean somewhere... I figured it out via trial and error back when I was trying to get completely accurate Salthi stats.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
And if Quarto is interested in extracting the stats from the game, I have the instructions for what all the hex codes in the ship files mean somewhere... I figured it out via trial and error back when I was trying to get completely accurate Salthi stats.
That would be highly appreciated indeed.
 
Quarto << the stats are partly from the manual, and partly from experimentation (that i 100% know were used). i don't know if any game-data was extracted.

ex. rotation speeds were tested by spinning 360 degrees some number of times and working out the degrees per second from that. (not perfect, but it's pretty accurate)
armour, mass, etc, were taken from text where available.


About the 'real' specs and the 'documented' specs.
how much do they differ?
because if the real specs differ from text then we really are sort of free (by presedent) to adjust some things.

------------------RANT----------------
also, i'm not totally keen on making the game exactly as much like the original as possible.
for one thing, if that were the goal, then it would make more sense to rewrite an executable that just uses the original data and offers nothing more than an engine upgrade.
the game is already 'different', so why kid ourselves.

i am _NOT_ suggesting anything even remotely related to re-doing the conventions set by origin. i love keeping things canon. it simply makes me feel good.

what i do suggest is a relaxation of domain. like borrowing stats from different wing commander games or books if we see some redeeming aspect about them.

the privateer remake is intended to be a faithful recreation. we don't want any major changes to the way things were originally done.
WCU is sort of an all inclusive wing commander.
Instead of having 2 privateer-remake lines [+ WCU], it's much easier to simply have one faithul privateer remake, and then push 'new' features into the WCU side of things.

Ultimately we'd like WCU to allow you to privateer, enlist in military, fly historic missions, etc... Because WCU is a WC synthesis, it would make sense to combine various game-data, book-information, manual-stats, etc, as we see fit-for-gameplay from all wc games. This could include drayman with turret mounts (as in book), and ability to aquire alternative ships somehow*.

i personally don't plan on any reckless changes. i've worked on a couple mods (mostly quake, one homeworld), and i've seen the effects of populist decisions...
ex. "we want realistic stats" - MFQ3 => SHIT gameplay...
in a shrunken environment arcade fighter combat game, realistic stats had no place... the stats were better done 'characteristically', or by 'role'. flight performance needs balance with environment and purpose.
similarly, it's plain to see the heart of privateer design. the ship choices clearly represent role choices. The stats of ships, regardless of what text says, are ultimately decided by playtesters. This is the only way to provide a good balance of power, and ultimately enjoyable gameplay.

hence we should consider the engine we are using, the scales and speeds we have, the combay style we want to use, the AI behavior, the control-input methods we have available to the user; and we should come up with concrete gameplay stats and settings that bring these aspects into the best balance possible. this of course, includes fudging some values.


-scheherazade

*somehow=for a privateer, probably an alternative method than buying it at the booth at any time...
 
Unregistered said:
About the 'real' specs and the 'documented' specs.
how much do they differ?
It is difficult to tell, as it varies from game to game - in WC1 and 2, the stats for some ships differ very significantly between the game and the manual. On the other hand, Armada's stats are remarkably accurate - only the armament on some ships differs, and a few other minor changes.

Keep in mind, the reason why the in-game stats are usually different to what you have in the manual is because they change right up until the end, in beta testing - at the point when the manual has already been sent off to print. In the case of this project, I would suggest keeping to the in-game stats as much as possible - it is the gameplay experience that you're trying to re-create, and the in-game stats are what determines this experience.
 
all right then,
do you have a tool to extract these values? or a table of them somewhere?

-scheherazade
 
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