Conflict : Freespace The great war

Earthworm · Feb 27, 2000

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Quarto:
I don't care what Earthworm says about FS - whether it had characters or not, it still had quite a few gameplay features that Origin should've thought of a long time ago.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why you little.....!

Eveyone must care what the Earthworm says!

IMO, yes the fact that the asteroids disturb your sensors is somewhat cool, and IMO FS has great gameplay, but it just lacks story.

Anyhow, could you point out some of the other features Orign should do in WC that FS has?

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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton

Death · Feb 27, 2000

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Quarto:
Which Master of Orion do you mean? I or II?

I think that FS was actually very innovative when it came to such things. Of course, there were no nebulas in FS, but there were asteroids, and there you also had limited sensor/comm range. I don't care what Earthworm says about FS - whether it had characters or not, it still had quite a few gameplay features that Origin should've thought of a long time ago.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Both MOO and MOO2 have that effect with shields, though in MOO2 you could negate that with Hard Shields tech.

As for FS, I've bought both of them, plus the Silent Threat addon (though I only finished FS1 for various reasons), and considered on their own I think they were well worth the full price back when they were relatively new.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Earthworm:
Anyhow, could you point out some of the other features Orign should do in WC that FS has?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For starters, the customizable HUD of FS/FS2. (Yes, you can tweak WCP/WCSO's cockpits, but only minor things like cockpit struts) I would've loved the oportunity to kill the comm videos in WCP/SO... They were useless crap.

Another thing off the top of my head is that, in FS2 (moreso than FS1, though FS1 wasn't terrible in this regard), capships were an actual threat. (No, I'm not saying "Big capships!" like all the advertisements and such... I'm saying DANGEROUS capships.) When first going up against that Shivan destroyer in the nebula when flying a bomber, I was like 'f*ck me!' when those flak guns started tracking on me. Haven't really run into dangerous anti-fighter guns since Armada's flak cannons or WC2's AMGs. (lasers/masers? *snort* Even the capship versions weren't very threatening to any but the weakest of fighters.)

The fact that shields didn't make one totally impervious while they were still functioning is another good thing, at least to me. If you get hit hard enough (near an explosion or missile hit) it will damage the hull some as well as the shields (though not as much damage as when you're unshielded, at the beginning of FS1). The whole idea of "invulnerable as long as your shields exist" (at its most extreme in Priv2, with those 'bumpercars' shield bubbles) never sat well with me, though admittedly that is just my opinion.

As to the question asked at the very beginning of this thread, as to whether it's worth getting, I think so, though Earthworm and Quarto are right that you're not likely to get an especially kind treatment in a WC forum, even if the two game series are of the same genre.

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SubCrid Death
Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild

[This message has been edited by Death (edited February 27, 2000).]

Earthworm · Feb 27, 2000

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Death:
Another thing off the top of my head is that, in FS2 (moreso than FS1, though FS1 wasn't terrible in this regard), capships were an actual threat. (No, I'm not saying "Big capships!" like all the advertisements and such... I'm saying DANGEROUS capships.) When first going up against that Shivan destroyer in the nebula when flying a bomber, I was like 'f*ck me!' when those flak guns started tracking on me. Haven't really run into dangerous anti-fighter guns since Armada's flak cannons or WC2's AMGs. (lasers/masers? *snort* Even the capship versions weren't very threatening to any but the weakest of fighters.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actualy I replayed FS few days ago, and the capships weren't realy dangerous. The cruisers (which in FS happen to be one of the smallest capships, even smaller than destroyers and corvettes) are very easy to destroy. In one of the later missions were your job is to destroy the Eva, a Demon class destroyer (which is suposed to be the second strongest capship the Shivans have), my wingman did only 20% hull damage to it, and 30% damage to it's weapons subsystems before they were all killed. I finished the remaining 80% of the ship by myself while fighting off two waves of three very manuvereable fighters. And the only damage I got on that mission was from the shockwave from the destruction of the Eva cause I has to pull some manuvers to avoid crashing into my support ship. How's that for dangerous capships.

Also, I agree that modifying the HUD is a cool option, but aside from changing the color of the HUD I don't realy use it.

IMO FS was worth the money I spend for it ($28 by the way). It has great gameplay that can be compared to WC, but the lack of basic characters in the game, which at least for me make up 90% of the story, made me disapointed. I guess my standards are a little to high after all those WC games.

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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton

Quarto · Feb 27, 2000

Well, there ya go, Earthworm. You just pointed out another feature - the capship explosions which actually have a nice, damaging shockwave. In WC, you could be inside a carrier and still not die when it blows up.
Another neat feature (albeit copied from Tie-Fighter) was the ability to really command your wingmen. WC has always had wingmen - you'd think they'd develop it past "Break and Attack!"

.
I also loved the variety of missiles/bombs, where each type was so different. Same with guns, though not as much. Some guns only damaged shields, while others only damaged hull, or both.
They had some very innovative mission types, too. Note that what you said about lack of nav points is not true. You did have nav points - only they were closer together and didn't require you to keep pressing "a". Admittedly, they could've made things better by making it possible to land.

Earthworm · Feb 27, 2000

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Quarto:
Well, there ya go, Earthworm. You just pointed out another feature - the capship explosions which actually have a nice, damaging shockwave. In WC, you could be inside a carrier and still not die when it blows up.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that's BS Quarto!

In WC3 and WC4, if you were inside a carrier or some other ship with a hangar, while it blew up you would be either destroyed or heavily damaged.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Another neat feature (albeit copied from Tie-Fighter) was the ability to really command your wingmen. WC has always had wingmen - you'd think they'd develop it past "Break and Attack!"

.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He he, yeah, I'd agree with you if those commands were usefull. The wingman AI in FS is worse than in Prophecy. They barley ever kill anything, and if an enemy attacks them while they're doing something I ordered them to do, they break, kill the enemy and than go looking for more fighters instead of completing the objective I gave them!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I also loved the variety of missiles/bombs, where each type was so different. Same with guns, though not as much. Some guns only damaged shields, while others only damaged hull, or both.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

??????? The weapons variety isn't any better than WC. The missiles and bombs in FS are as different from each other as missiles and torpedos in Prophecy. And the gun variety is smaller than in most WC games. Also, only two or so guns can't penetrate shields, because they were developed before the shield technology existed (at least for the GTA). After that all guns can damage shields and hull.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>They had some very innovative mission types, too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just like every single WC game.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Note that what you said about lack of nav points is not true. You did have nav points - only they were closer together and didn't require you to keep pressing "a". Admittedly, they could've made things better by making it possible to land.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, there are no navpoints. You go from the briefing to your cockpit, either wait for the enemy to arrive, or are placed in the middle of the fighting, and than you jump out. There are no navpoints. Unless traveling few kilometers from one point to another is going from one nav point to the second one (the equivlant of about 40 seconds of flight withough burners in Prophecy, and even than you don't fly for that long in FS to often).

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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton

[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited February 27, 2000).]

Quarto · Feb 27, 2000

No nav points? Then what was I doing in all those "escort to the jump point" mission? The distances are actually closer to WC 1 distances than the 40 seconds of flight you mentioned.
And I most definitely didn't die inside carriers. I didn't use invulnerability either. Then of course, there were those other times, when I sat right behind a ship, and didn't get damaged at all

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Yes, FreeSpace AI wasn't great, but that doesn't invalidate the greatness of the wingmen commands. WCP AI was pretty lame too.
I liked the way the shields tech only appeared during the game. Oh, and while on that matter, you could transfer energy from one part of the shield to another much more easily than in WCP.

Earthworm · Feb 27, 2000

Did you read my other post about treman?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Quarto:
No nav points? Then what was I doing in all those "escort to the jump point" mission?

He he, you were escorting it to the jump point. Meaning a point in space where the jump node is located.

The distances are actually closer to WC 1 distances than the 40 seconds of flight you mentioned.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, the distances in WC1 are small, but that's probably because of engine limitaions. In Prophecy the distances between nav points are WAY to big to fly manualy even when using autoslide to simulate unlimited AB's.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>And I most definitely didn't die inside carriers. I didn't use invulnerability either. Then of course, there were those other times, when I sat right behind a ship, and didn't get damaged at all

.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What dificulty are you playing on? When I play on Hero, or Hard I most definetly do get damaged or even destroyed.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Yes, FreeSpace AI wasn't great, but that doesn't invalidate the greatness of the wingmen commands.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the wingman commands mean sh** when your wingman don't follow orders.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>WCP AI was pretty lame too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't that basicly what I said?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I liked the way the shields tech only appeared during the game. Oh, and while on that matter, you could transfer energy from one part of the shield to another much more easily than in WCP.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I also liked the way the shields apeared, but since those were around from the begining... Well, transfering power from shields is a matter of preferences. IMO it's better in Prophecy because unlike transfering just when the shields get damaged like in FS, you can transfer extra energy when you start the mission. And instead of transfering to front, back, left, right, you just have to transfet to front or back.

However the best thing in FS was the way Shivans were introduced. They apear, and you can't even target them or do any damage to them, and it's like that for two or three missions. Much better introduced than the Nephilim.

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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton

Quarto · Feb 27, 2000

Read it and replied to it

.

I generally play on Ace, simply because I am not a Hero

.

As for the Shivans... well, it is just me, or were the Nephilem a big disappointment? I mean, the manual made it look like we were going to fight this really dangerous enemy, possibly with superior tech and so on. But then the real Nephilem turn out to be absolutely useless, relying on mass numbers. Whatever happened to that "efficiency" that scared Paladin so much?
Anyway, yes, it's really neat the way the Shivans appear, and the way the Lucifer is basically untouchable. That's really scary, when you see the Lucifer appear, and you already know that there's nothing you can do about it.

Conflict : Freespace The great war

Earthworm

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Death

gh0d (Administrator)

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