Battle for the Verdun

Thunderbolt

Rear Admiral
Hey everyone

Standoff has already climbed to one of the best all time games I've played. Great work!

Just a small question about the battle at the Verdun. I notice that the point defence laser turrets don't try to shoot down any incoming torpedoes but I've seen the Firekka and the Snakier II successfully knock torpedoes out. Is the Verdun just caught by surprise or is it just something to do with the game design?

Cheers
 

PopsiclePete

Mission programmer
Lt.Death100 said:
I think they purposely made a few parts near unwinnable and I think that's one of those.
Hey, not at all ! I've tried hard to make that mission hard yet winnable :p The only mission in Ep3 that's puposely near-unwinnable (but still many people beat it) if that bombing mission where you team up with two wings from the Concordia (Broadswords and Epees) to destroy the Ralatha and Snakeir.

Anyway, we made the missions hard in Standoff for three reasons; first because we want people to play the loosing path (too many people fly the same mission again and again until it's won), second because it's aimed at WC fans who don't need to have it easy, and third because it's after the false armistice, when so many Confed ships were mothballed you have to face more heat from the Kilrathis.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Thunderbolt said:
Just a small question about the battle at the Verdun. I notice that the point defence laser turrets don't try to shoot down any incoming torpedoes but I've seen the Firekka and the Snakier II successfully knock torpedoes out. Is the Verdun just caught by surprise or is it just something to do with the game design?
Turrets generally try to shoot down any torpedoes that get in their cone of fire - but since our capships aren't covered with turrets from every angle, there are always some blind spots. The Verdun's a big ship, so I guess she just has more blind spots than other ships do.

...Besides, you're the point defence :p. Honestly, while I realise that I personally have simply had far too many opportunities to practice winning that mission during testing, I really don't understand why people have trouble saving the Verdun. This isn't WC1's "Save the Ralari" scenario, it's really a relatively easy mission. You just have to stay focussed on the ships that actually pose a threat to the Verdun, ignoring the rest.
 

Lt.Death100

Spaceman
Quarto said:
Turrets generally try to shoot down any torpedoes that get in their cone of fire - but since our capships aren't covered with turrets from every angle, there are always some blind spots. The Verdun's a big ship, so I guess she just has more blind spots than other ships do.

...Besides, you're the point defence :p. Honestly, while I realise that I personally have simply had far too many opportunities to practice winning that mission during testing, I really don't understand why people have trouble saving the Verdun. This isn't WC1's "Save the Ralari" scenario, it's really a relatively easy mission. You just have to stay focussed on the ships that actually pose a threat to the Verdun, ignoring the rest.
Well maybe people don't know about the nav-map! :p
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
Lt.Death100 said:
Well maybe people don't know about the nav-map! :p

By now, if you don't know about the nav map then you deserve to lose the Verdun..it's an essential part of WCP/SO and Standoff that like any tool at a pilot's disposal should be mastered in combat...
 

RATM

Spaceman
Dundradal said:
By now, if you don't know about the nav map then you deserve to lose the Verdun..it's an essential part of WCP/SO and Standoff that like any tool at a pilot's disposal should be mastered in combat...
I finished secret ops without knowing about the navmap thingie. I learned it here a few weeks ago.


SO just got easier.
 

cff

Kilk'dymga'qith laq Ik'vikvi
It all depends on your feeling for the space around you. Personally I almost never use the nav map (except when you have to pick an alternative nav-point by hand) and when I do I usually just check whats still left fighting. Defending a structure/capship for me is more a matter of flying by visuals and really DO a point defense, that is do not try to chase enemies.
 

PopsiclePete

Mission programmer
Same here. I actually build my missions and test them to gauge the difficulty never looking at the NAV map except for picking new NAV points.

The NAV map is a nice tool, but I prefer an uninterrupted action sequence relying on radar and visual only, for the immersion feeling.
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
When you're constantly turning and burning in an environment where it can be hard to get your bearings. I prefer to pull up the map, check for my primaries and charge in. The few seconds it take to cycle through targets can come bite you in the ass in Standoff, especially in point defense missions. I hate watching torps launch from a fighter and I have no chance of shooting it down and then watching the ship go down...
 

Lt.Death100

Spaceman
Dundradal said:
When you're constantly turning and burning in an environment where it can be hard to get your bearings. I prefer to pull up the map, check for my primaries and charge in. The few seconds it take to cycle through targets can come bite you in the ass in Standoff, especially in point defense missions. I hate watching torps launch from a fighter and I have no chance of shooting it down and then watching the ship go down...
Which is I'm sure how the pilots would feel if they were real. :)
 

Sarty

Rear Admiral
Dundradal said:
I hate watching torps launch from a fighter and I have no chance of shooting it down and then watching the ship go down...

I agree, the nav map can save you the precious seconds needed to successfully protect your carrier. However, my proudest moment in any WC game is when I 'burned towards the Verdun and fired literally right along the hull and caught a torp just as it was about to impact. Of course you can't rely on something like that to happen, so use the nav map.;)
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
Those seconds also add up in some missions were time is of the essence, giving you precious seconds you may need to cross the battlefield and engage your next primary target.
 

Crazy J

Spaceman
I've never that hard a time saving the Verdun - and personally I hate the navmap. I never used it and was still able to save the Verdun - though I shall admit that she still got one torp up the... docking bay. At least she was still in one piece.
 

Falcon988

Commodore
Yea I really don't care to use the navmap. I only ever use it on the defense missions that are really hard. I used it extensively in that near impossible UE mission (at the space station) and on the one time I beat the Ralatha/Snakeir bombing mission in Standoff ep 3. The only reason I used it in Standoff though was just because I really wanted to win that mission.

Beyond those two examples, I strongly dislike it and usually don't find it necessary. I can protect the Verdun 60 - 70% of the time without it by just targetting the Kilrathi bombers and blowing them up quickly - you know, the old fashioned way. I don't always save it but I like a little randomness in my campaigns otherwise it would always be the same.

Oh, just remembered that I also used it the time I saved the Sao Paulo. Usually I'm okay with letting it die though if it happens. I would hate to be on the winning path each playthrough, that would be so dreary. One of the slight slight slight criticisms I have on Standoff, so slight it's really irrelevant, is that it's too easy to destroy the capship in Episode 2 and miss the excellent Sirius path in episode 3.
 

PopsiclePete

Mission programmer
Falcon988 said:
One of the slight slight slight criticisms I have on Standoff, so slight it's really irrelevant, is that it's too easy to destroy the capship in Episode 2 and miss the excellent Sirius path in episode 3.
I was begining to worry that no one actually played it :p I had much more fun coding the loosing path than the winning path for Ep3, and I believe the loosing path is actually more intresting.
 

Crazy J

Spaceman
Falcon988 said:
Oh, just remembered that I also used it the time I saved the Sao Paulo. Usually I'm okay with letting it die though if it happens. I would hate to be on the winning path each playthrough, that would be so dreary.

... What mission was this? Somehow I don't remember it. At all.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Crazy J said:
... What mission was this? Somehow I don't remember it. At all.
It's the last (fourth) mission of the winning path in episode 3. More specifically, it's a second-chance mission, which people only get if they do badly in the previous missions. Here's how it works, in brief - to win episode 3, you have to a) save the Verdun, and b) cover the fleet's safe withdrawal by escorting the minelayers. If you achieve both of these objectives, the fleet withdrawal goes well, and that's the end of the episode. However, if you lose the Verdun or fail to lay down enough mines to stop the enemy, Confed deploys Destroyer Group 2 to delay the cats, and you get to rescue what's left of DG-2 afterwards. If you save both the destroyers (that is, the Sao Paulo - the Breslau's pretty much safe), you can still save the day and stay on the winning path.

The only other thing that needs to be added is that if you lose the Verdun, you get the Sao Paulo mission, but you don't get to stay on the winning path even if you save the Sao Paulo - a saved destroyer doesn't offset a lost carrier ;).

Standoff is filled with little branches like this (well, with the exception of episode two, which is almost as straight as a stick)... there's one or two missions in episode 3 that many people didn't notice (...not to mention the entire losing path), and there's at least two missions in episode 1 that virtually nobody noticed. So, I guess the moral of the story is that if you are waiting for episode 4, there may still be a lot of stuff you can do with the first three episodes :p.
 

Crazy J

Spaceman
... So I can join the pirates and get a new intro into episode 2?

Ok, so I can save the Verdun and lose the minelayers, but still stay on the winning path by saving both destroyers? If I lose the Sao Paulo, do I get stuck on the losing path intro for the next episode?

Ironically, I didn't find coming into Episode 3 on the losing path was that horribly difficult. It was just the fact that everyone hated me for some odd reason...
 
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